New memeber with a BIG question

[Haf]

Hi all,

I'm expecting to become a Navara owner in the near future and at the moment cannot decide between a new D22 ST-R manual 4x4 or the current D40 ST-X 4x4 manual. If I can get the wife on side I may even be able to grab the new 140 kw 2010 model....fingers crossed.

Anyway, I was hoping some of you could pass onto me the strengths and weaknesses of both trucks and any advice would be appreciated.

I found this website the other day http://complaintscorner.net/ and read some horror stories from some very dissatisifed Navara owners. Their tales made me a bit hesitant about buying a Navara until I found this website and everybody here appears more than happy with their ute.

Looking forward to reading your responses.

Cheers.

 

[Krankin]

Gday and welcome to the family.

As for which to choose, it comes down to personel preference, what you want it for, how much yoy want to spend.
They are two different vehicles.

one's more agriculural and tough,
the other is softer, more family type upmarket.

 

[hutchstr]

Hey haf
As krankin said it is more what you are wanting it for..
I just bought a new D22 model and so far happy as..
it was $10k cheaper than the D40 and is all I need.
the D40 is more made for comfort and space but the D22 more a work ute..

 

[Jason]

Hi Haf, welcome to the forum.

Have you driven either truck yet?

 

[Bosshog]

The decision is easy! Do you use a hair dryer? If you do, then you should make the right decision, buy a D40 and drive the better of both models!!

 

[Old.Tony]

Welcome aboard!

As Krankin said, they are two different cars. The D22 lacks rear leg room, child seat restraints and super-comfy seats, but has a larger tub and is more rugged than the D40, which is lower, less off-road capable and more comfortable.

There is an important distinction for the top-of-the-range D40 STX Dual Cab: unlike the other Navaras, these come from Spain and not Thailand. Different build, different quality. I have a Spanish build and am absolutely, thoroughly happy with it. That's not to say that the Thai builds are bad - but there are more disaster stories with Thai builds than Spanish.

Both have the same towing capacities and for towing, the auto is recommended in the D40 due to its large power onslaught as the turbo comes on strong, compared to the gentler transition to full power experienced in the D22.

Both can return good economy figures, the D22 should be a little better but the difference should not be considered a "deal breaker".

The D40 strikes me as an attempt by Nissan to cater for those that want a ute with the comfort, ride and features of a modern family sedan. The D22 isn't far behind, but lacks the little things like 6-speaker sound, in-dash navigation, remote central locking, cruise control, puddle lighting in the door mirrors etc. These refinements mark the difference in price between what in my opinion are truly decent, capable vehicles.

If you want to spend more time off-road, you should lean towards the D22. If you only do light off-road stuff and want comfort, look at the D40. Take each for a drive with the wife first - as Jason said - and see how they feel, look at the features, determine if there's enough in it for your wants and needs. Remember the Navara has a lot of after-market stuff available for it, too.

And remember, most importantly - places like Complaints Corner are populated by people that have complaints. Look up the Triton in that site. Look up the Holden Colorado, Ford Ranger etc. They'll all have horror stories. Every manufacturer puts out lemons, it's just the way things are. You could choose a Colorado or Isuzu D-Max instead, hoping to get away from these "horror demons" and discover that shopping trolleys can outrun your beast at the lights, and Tonka make a sturdier chassis than the one you were landed with.

Good luck with your choice. Whichever way it goes - Nissan or not, D22 or D40, I hope you have fun with it.

 

[ants_oz]

The D22 and D40 are different vehicles in roughly similar classes, but at different price points. They are targetted by Nissan at basically different audiences from what I can tell - otherwise why would Nissan try to pilfer sales from themselves....

Some people talk about the D22 being "better off road"... I'd challenge that statement. How do I know, as I don't own a D22? Well, having owned 6 4wd's before this one, and been a qualified 4wd techniques instructor I am pretty familiar with what most of the popular 4wd vehicles can do in most styles of terrain - I'd suggest there isn't much between the two and the major limiting factor is the driver. For example, while the D40 may drag it's belly in places, it also has a fair bot more front suspension articulation than the D22 - so horses for courses.

Anyway, the point is this - they are different vehicles - the one which fits you best is the one which suits your needs. The D40 is a larger vehicle than the D22, with one of the largest tubs in its class - certainly larger than the D22's (according to Nissan's owns specs anyway).

Whether or not the D40 is a "hairdressers car" is a matter of opinion - the simple matter is that some people like the refinement, space and safety aspects offered by this newer model. Things like a full compliment of child restraint points which simply are not available on the D22 and are important to me as a family man.

If you want a "stripper" but need the bigger body shape, you can always buy an RX in the D40 body shape. Doesn't have to be an ST-X with all the fruit. Then there is the ST to consider which is apparently a decent level of kit as well (although I don't know much about them).

One of the problems with Navara's these days is that we are spoilt for choice in the model range!

Anyway, if you decide to buy one, I hope you enjoy it.

Personally, I very much enjoy my Navara - it is a very good vehicle that I have found rugged, reliable and up to all the tasks I have asked of it.

 

[tweak'e]

D40 is bigger, also has bigger turning circle. so its somewhat harder to get through the tight spots. i prefer the lesser amounts of electronics on the D22. ie a 4x4 gearstick instead of the D40 switch (which has a habit of failing).

don't forget D40 also has the common faults, clutchs and brakes seam to wear out real quick.

 

[Krankin]

i prefer the lesser amounts of electronics on the D22. ie a 4x4 gearstick instead of the D40 switch (which has a habit of failing).



That a plus for me too,
hate those push button 4x4 that dont engage when you need it to.

 

[will]

another thing to look at is after-market accessories, and there are an abundance for the D22. also the D22 isn't uncomfortable for touring and passengers, just not designed as a family car as much as the D40.

 

[ants_oz]

Early model D40's had a reputation for clutches failing. Later models (early 2008 onwards??) - haven't heard any/many complaints.

Push button 4wd systems that don't engage when you want them to....hmm? Didn't realise that was a problem with D40's - or a common problem with any other modern 4wd for that matter - seeing as though "shift on the fly"push button 4wd operation is pretty much common place these days. But when did the D40's 4wd switch suddenly develop a common fault of failing? That is news to me, and I'm sure quite a number of other D40 members on this forum?

After market accessories - I'd be surprised if there are really any less available for the D40 than for the D22. Happy to be corrected of course, but proof is always nice instead of old wives tales

Got to agree with Tweak though on the turning circle....it's big. No excuses there.

I might be jumping the gun here, but it seems that the people with the biggest problem with D40's are D22 owners.

 

[Old.Tony]

I might be jumping the gun here, but it seems that the people with the biggest problem with D40's are D22 owners.

I think the psychologists call it "HDE" ... Hair Dryer Envy.

 

[Leprechaun]

Drive both.

I'd be surprised if you find the D22 better, other than price.

 

[Haf]

Hey Guys,

I appreciate all your comments attached to this thread and since this purchase represents a substantial investment the more information I can obtain the better.

I didn't realise the D22 didn't come with child retraint capabilities and this will be pretty much the 'deal breaker' as I have a young family.

Now the next question I'm going to ask may stir the pot even further. I am fairly mechanically minded, however I have never owned a diesel before and have no real idea about them. I have been slowly educating myself on the internet with forums such as this which does help.

Now....which is better? Petrol or Diesel? I know a lot of you will have the same response as horses for courses and I am more than aware of that. I have read a number of threads where the diesel owners are continually striving for more power with big exhausts, chips and playing with DPF etc etc. They also mention issues with soot, smoke and major turbo lag. If this is the case why not just buy yourself the V6?

I completely understand the need to balance power and economy and an improvement in either will sacrifice the other, but I was hoping to get some honest replies about if the diesel requires more maintenance, the economy is great but the power sucks etc etc. Are there any first time diesel owners out there that regret their purchase and vice versa?

Where I live I have some large hills I'll have to climb on a daily basis and will no doubt be towing a single axle trailer with some light equipment on it. I don't want a pay all that money and have a gutless mobile roadblock with a mile of traffic behind me AND at the same time I don't want to be filling up with PULP every 5 mins.

To answer a previously asked question, a mate of mine has an 03 ST-R and I have driven it. I was impressed with it when it was new but he hasn't looked after it and I drove it recently and have changed my mind a bit.

Of course I will test drive everything I can get my hands on when the time is right and as previously mentioned I have child restraint needs.

Now don't be shy with your replies and my thanks in advance for your efforts.

Cheers,

Haf.

 

[tweak'e]

petrol or diesel......depends on a lot of factors. the big one is price of fuel and taxes on them.

as a general rule diesels tend to be better for towing/carrying loads than petrols despite lower power. its just petrol fuel consumption on petrols tend to go through the roof when towing.
ignoring fuel prices, better fuel economy means more range without having o fit long range tanks. might be important for those who travel long distances between fuel stops.

 

[ants_oz]

Modern diesels are quite powerful compared to their older relatives and tow very well - I woudl MUCH prefer to tow with a modern turbo diesel.

One of the biggest problems people make with diesels is that, when on a hill (particularly when carrying a big load or towing) is that they don't anticipate...drive to the conditions and the terrain....

Look ahead, select the right gear, and allow the vehicle to settle into the right speed for the hill you are about to go up. You WON'T accelerate going up a hill with a big load on board so don't try.

Flip side of the coin, your fuel economy won't suffer with a diesel anywhere near as much when carrying a load anywhere near as much as it will with a petrol engine. Well, that is my experience anyway.

I don't know why other Navara owners are suffering poor fuel economy - I'm not them and I don't know how they drive their vehicles or what style of vehicles they have owned in the past. I can only speak for myself and my own experiences.

Oh, yeah, and range....admittedly I do have 150 litres of fuel on board, but it's nice to be able to run for over 1300km with a nice fat reserve capacity....

 

[Dave]

Food for thought, D22's can be fitted with child restraints.

My Navara with a car trailer and S13 180SX, tools, 3 extra set's of tyres got 14.5L/100km's driving to Coffs Harbour last year.

I did I think something like 1000km's that weekend and had to fill up the ute again at 870km's where usually I fill it at anywhere from 1000km's to 1150km's to a tank.

Dave.

 

[Old.Tony]

Petrol engines are good for zippy acceleration off at the lights and doing burnouts and if that's the most important thing for you, get a petrol and enjoy 16 litres per hundred km or worse, over 25LPHK when towing. Sure, there's no lag, but you make up for that with visits to the bowser.

The diesel has several significant advantages.

1) Fuel prices are more stable.
2) Diesel is available almost everywhere in the country
3) Economy is much better: I'm getting 11LPHK not towing, and between 17-18LPHK towing 1.8 tonnes.
4) If you decide to go off-road, the petrol version will not thank you. You need to make sure your turbo is relatively cool before attempting a water crossing, but the diesel will happily push itself along with water flowing up the windscreen (there are movies on this site proving it).

Diesels are versatile but they are definitely noisier. My wife and I are quite happy with ours, it's stock standard and outside it sounds like a truck. Inside, it's a hum that we've gotten used to. We came from a whisper-quiet Commodore - so quiet, in fact, that you could stand next to it and not realise the engine was running. We have no complaints about the noise of the diesel - but that's just us.

I would also say that the turbo lag issue, while it's there, is not as much of a problem for us. The lag stops you from tramping your foot and flying off at the lights - there's about a half-second wait before the thing actually gets up on its legs. Since I'm really not in that much of a hurry to get anywhere, the lag isn't a problem. It's especially noticeable if you have the manual - but again, driven properly with the knowledge that there's not much power below boost range you will find it's easy to live with.

The lag exists because the engine has been tuned so that power comes on very strong from about 1800rpm-2000rpm. There's an exhaust gas recirculation system that compounds the lag issue and you might consider mucking with that.

Soot - the auto D40 doesn't have any, it has a DPF which for some is a scary device but if you drive the vehicle "normally" (ie not Monaco style) you'll never even notice it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ankaz]

Having come from V8's before buying my first 4x4 i must say I'm still getting used to the lack of grunt from my diesel, the turbo lag is a problem for me but might not be a problem for others. Having said all that, id still go the TD if i had my time over.
I've found highway driving and long trips is where my Nav is an absolute pleasure to drive.


I find the whole D40 V's D22 debate quite amusing, the D22 drivers seem to bag the shit out of the D40 at every opportunity, in my opinion you get what you pay for,
My suggestion would be take both for a test drive and make up your own mind, I'm sure you;ll be happy with either.

 

[Dave]

Its just a bit of fun, I have driven a few D40's and there a nice truck to drive.

More then anything its just the D40 guys call the D22 a work truck and say it rides like a horse drawn cart.

So the D22 guys comment on the D40's smooth ride saying that real men dont need that sort of ride.

Its all fun.

Dave.