Navara 2010 2.5 diesel fuel consumption

[apcconstructions]

Yes this is exactly what is needed and they can be bought - check out this link O2 simulator



Nah there is heaps of space. I am going to fabricate my own and see how it goes. If no good then it is an electronic O2 simulator from the US.

Here's the extension pipe Westy is referring to.

PS - my alfoil idea failed

Don't bother with the O2 sensor simulator form the US. These sensors are for petrol engines and the O2 sensor works in a totally different manor to the ones used in the Nissan diesel. Also the ECM does monitor the Sensor output and if it is not right then it will still throw an error code.

In the petrol engines the O2 sensor needs to cycle above and below the .45v mark a couple of times per second and the ECM compares this to the front Air fuel ratio sensor , where as the Nissan diesel doesn't have a front air fuel ratio sensor and only wants to see the value above the .45v mark. This is because in the diesel the sensor is being used to keep a rich air fuel mixture only where as a petrol engine the ECM wants a perfect air fuel ratio ( neither rich nor lean)

Don't know if this makes sense

 

[Bosshog]

I agree I don't think it will work. The ECM is constantly checking values given off by the Sensor and if the values don't fall into line with what the ECM wants them to fall between then the ECM deems the sensor faulty and will disregard it. If this happens I believe that you will still gain the fuel economy but with the CEL still on. ( takes about 4 or 5 trips before the ECM flags the CEL to come on)

Once again good luck and hope it works!!

I'll let you know what happens regardless.

 

[Old.Tony]

Don't bother with the O2 sensor simulator form the US. These sensors are for petrol engines and the O2 sensor works in a totally different manor to the ones used in the Nissan diesel. Also the ECM does monitor the Sensor output and if it is not right then it will still throw an error code.

In the petrol engines the O2 sensor needs to cycle above and below the .45v mark a couple of times per second and the ECM compares this to the front Air fuel ratio sensor , where as the Nissan diesel doesn't have a front air fuel ratio sensor and only wants to see the value above the .45v mark. This is because in the diesel the sensor is being used to keep a rich air fuel mixture only where as a petrol engine the ECM wants a perfect air fuel ratio ( neither rich nor lean)

Don't know if this makes sense

It makes sense.

The diesel doesn't need to monitor the front air fuel sensor. It's already reading the Mass Air Flow sensor and it knows how much fuel it's injecting, so if it varies things a little, it's really easy to predict what OUGHT to be in the exhaust.

That way, modifying the injector duration by a miniscule amount and looking for a tiny peak or trough in the O2 sensor will satisfy the ECM.

D40's diesel manual spells it out just like that, that's where I found out about it. Buggers don't miss a trick.

 

[apcconstructions]

It makes sense.

The diesel doesn't need to monitor the front air fuel sensor. It's already reading the Mass Air Flow sensor and it knows how much fuel it's injecting, so if it varies things a little, it's really easy to predict what OUGHT to be in the exhaust.

That way, modifying the injector duration by a miniscule amount and looking for a tiny peak or trough in the O2 sensor will satisfy the ECM.

D40's diesel manual spells it out just like that, that's where I found out about it. Buggers don't miss a trick.

I think the main point is a diesel engine is a lean burn engine and you cant really control the richness of the combustion as there is no throttle body - If you inject more fuel to try and make the engine run rich the engine just goes faster so a O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold is useless. - generally speaking

A petrol engine has a throttle body so you can inject more fuel while restricting the air intake and get a rich mix and visa versa - this is where the wideband O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold comes in handy in monitoring this process.

Anyway the O2 simulator sensors on the internet are for petrol ECM and work differently to the Diesel O2 sensors so there is no point in anyone wasting their money.

 

[Old.Tony]

I think the main point is a diesel engine is a lean burn engine and you cant really control the richness of the combustion as there is no throttle body - If you inject more fuel to try and make the engine run rich the engine just goes faster so a O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold is useless. - generally speaking

A petrol engine has a throttle body so you can inject more fuel while restricting the air intake and get a rich mix and visa versa - this is where the wideband O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold comes in handy in monitoring this process.

Anyway the O2 simulator sensors on the internet are for petrol ECM and work differently to the Diesel O2 sensors so there is no point in anyone wasting their money.

Maybe that's why the injectors open multiple times during the combustion cycle.

If they open the injectors just as the exhaust port is opening, the combustion process would still be finishing off inside the cylinder as the piston rose, burning the last residue of fuel. Adding a little more raw fuel will cause it to be burnt as it's heading out the exhaust valve, consuming the remainder of the oxygen and looking like it's rich (this could be what's used to "test" the O2 sensor). Another squirt just after that's gone past would land raw juice either in the DPF or the CAT to become the reductant needed to break down the NOx.

This might be too complex for forum-based forensics so let's just see how the experiments go and we can see how far we can take it after that!

 

[Bosshog]

I love a good challenge... and we got a doozy of one 'ere

 

[Krankin]

This might be too complex for forum-based forensics

No not at all...

might be just some dont get so much free computer time,
as much as i wish i did.

 

[Chip Tuning]

We heard of another DPF cracking on Friday up at Ipswich QLD.

Dont know how it failed and it basically cracked into pieces as he was driving !

Customer needed a DPF Race Pipe real quick as he was on the side of the road the installer told us.

BTW, we have a good write up about DPF function on the website under Cheat Sheets :

http://chipit.com.au/support/suppor...nt/cheat-sheet-diesel-particulate-filter-info

 

[Old.Tony]

We heard of another DPF cracking on Friday up at Ipswich QLD.

Dont know how it failed and it basically cracked into pieces as he was driving !

Customer needed a DPF Race Pipe real quick as he was on the side of the road the installer told us.

BTW, we have a good write up about DPF function on the website under Cheat Sheets :

https://chipit.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Cheat-Sheet-Diesel-Particulate-Filter-Info2.pdf

That's not a bad write-up, Robert. I'd make two slight alterations:

Page 3 at bottom, in "Alternatives for Urban Drivers" - I'd include the advice you have at the bottom of page 4 in brief, adding the bold text:

If a driver is restricted in their ability to regenerate a DPF through driving, they can drive in a lower gear to keep the engine rpm high enough, or there are other vehicles that can be chosen, which do not use this technology.

Page 4, first paragraph: "PDF" should be "DPF".

I'm a picky old bastard, but that's a good document. Kudos to you guys for putting it together.

 

[Bosshog]

Robert

A useful write up indeed.

More typos for you that Tony has missed.

Page 1 para 2 (in blue text) 'PDF' change to 'DPF'
Page 2 para 4 'bi-product' change to 'by-product'
Page 3 para 2 'PDF' change to 'DPF' three times in the same para

 

[apcconstructions]

Robert

A useful write up indeed.

More typos for you that Tony has missed.

Page 1 para 2 (in blue text) 'PDF' change to 'DPF'
Page 2 para 4 'bi-product' change to 'by-product'
Page 3 para 2 'PDF' change to 'DPF' three times in the same para

love those spell checkers !!

 

[Chip Tuning]

Will send to web dude for corrections. Thanks

 

[Chip Tuning]

Also added the fact that the NT Pajero went through a tranfiguration which was from the NS small DPF to the first generation NT with MUCH larger DPF and no sensors to the latest NT which has NO DPF

 

[chris the chippy]

G'day guys its great to read up on what other people are trying to do with these thristy DPF. Being trying out some of the same stuff you guys have beeing doing as well !!

I have the delete pipe and chip it chip with 3 inch pipe and hi flow cat!! AWSOME CAR!!!!! but after bout 50 K's lots of white smoke (SH%T MYSELF BIG TIME) so went back to my mates work shop to try to figure this out, WHY??

To cap what we have being try to do was to step out the o2 sensor, we have tryed it out and what we though work didn't !! We step it out so it was level with the inside of the pipe. (WHITE SMOKE!!!) so we tryed it so it was about 10mm in the pipe .(WHITE SMOKE!!!) So we just left it how it was!!

We tend to think it has got something to do with this sensor. Like what some has done here is to disconect to sensor and YES it has worked but you have the light on

 

[D40 AUTO]

hey chris did any that chipit gear achieve anything? just looking at getting a delete pipe.

 

[Bosshog]

G'day guys its great to read up on what other people are trying to do with these thristy DPF. Being trying out some of the same stuff you guys have beeing doing as well !!

I have the delete pipe and chip it chip with 3 inch pipe and hi flow cat!! AWSOME CAR!!!!! but after bout 50 K's lots of white smoke (SH%T MYSELF BIG TIME) so went back to my mates work shop to try to figure this out, WHY??

To cap what we have being try to do was to step out the o2 sensor, we have tryed it out and what we though work didn't !! We step it out so it was level with the inside of the pipe. (WHITE SMOKE!!!) so we tryed it so it was about 10mm in the pipe .(WHITE SMOKE!!!) So we just left it how it was!!

We tend to think it has got something to do with this sensor. Like what some has done here is to disconect to sensor and YES it has worked but you have the light on

I am not suggesting that I have beaten it yet but I have now gone 6 days with no white smoke having undertaken what I explained here. The O2 sensor is well out with 20+mm space between the bottom of the probe and the exhaust. It was orginally 25mm out but just as Westy pointed out there was not enough room so I cut 5mm out of the extension piece. Single 3mm hole in the bottom of the extension.

 

[Bosshog]

hey chris did any that chipit gear achieve anything? just looking at getting a delete pipe.

Removing the DPF and replacing with a delete pipe reduced my fuel consumption from mid 15s to mid 14s. Replacing the dump pipe with a hi flow one reduced fuel consumption further to around 14.2/14.3 l/100km BUT you get the white smoke so be careful.

 

[Krankin]

love those spell checkers !!

Hehehe....yes indeed

 

[chris the chippy]

G'day d40 auto!!! Gota good response out of it had it in for about 6 months now, on setting 4 with hi flow cat was awsome tryed 5 but smoked tyres towing builders trailer, but to stop the smoke put the old cat in and left it on 4 still pretty good even on fuel runs about 12 to 13 with out trailer. Stiil im keen to get rid of that old cat for my dump and hi flow cat

Hey boss hog you know you can buy those cheat bungs from a exhaust shops, they run them on the new holdens and fords for engine lights so the dont have to get a tuner to turn off the lights because of the o2 sensor they about 10 bucks.

i try my way for about 1 and a half months but got the sh%ts with it
but bloke if it work's TOP JOBim keen to learn how u done it , might of miss something i didn't do that you have done!!!

Let it all be a learning curve to all of us!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bosshog]

G'day d40 auto!!! Gota good response out of it had it in for about 6 months now, on setting 4 with hi flow cat was awsome tryed 5 but smoked tyres towing builders trailer, but to stop the smoke put the old cat in and left it on 4 still pretty good even on fuel runs about 12 to 13 with out trailer. Stiil im keen to get rid of that old cat for my dump and hi flow cat

Hey boss hog you know you can buy those cheat bungs from a exhaust shops, they run them on the new holdens and fords for engine lights so the dont have to get a tuner to turn off the lights because of the o2 sensor they about 10 bucks.

i try my way for about 1 and a half months but got the sh%ts with it
but bloke if it work's TOP JOBim keen to learn how u done it , might of miss something i didn't do that you have done!!!

Let it all be a learning curve to all of us!!!!!!!!!!

There is a D40 in Perth with the O2 sensor completely wrapped (i.e. layers and layers) in alfoil and a lengthy piece of alfoil hanging well done below the probe and no white smoke.