no limit tuning power chip ?

its like if we tune a petrol car here on say 100 octane and then give that tune to someone to run 91 octane. The new fuel requires a different tune

I understand the differences in fuel types operating conditions etc. but these and most others are only add fuel pressure or lengthing injection timing not actually changing ignitiont timing boost etc. i know your going to say if you change fuel other factors should then be changed to compensate that which is true however these plug in chips are only making minor addjustments to fuel so it wont really be an issue.
I not desputing your chips are a good bit of gear and they probably are I just erks me that you go into a thread about a different supplier and start pushing your own product.

Chip It said:

I have swapped out a few cheaper chips from Europe. They are not tuned very high as they need to keep very very safe for non German (European) vehicles running different fuel than what we run as well.

We tune here so we know what the limits are of the Aussie specs vehicles

Click to expand...

True story. I had the no- limit. I contacted them about higher tunes which they have and gave me. Although they said that they are not suitable for oz conditions.

ggc d22 sorry I couldn't make you happy

just so you know, europe and australia have the same cetane and sulfur ratings in diesel since a few years back... that being said i don't see how that would matter when you're increasing rail pressure. I could understand different diesel causing a problem when you have boost but when you're simply adding rail pressure I don't think it would matter where the car was tested as there is only so much you can do before the car throws a light for seeing to much pressure in the rail.

these more power chips are cheap on ebay and probably work to some extent, have seen people say they're good value for money so if you're chasing something that is cheap to add a little more power i guess it would be an okay solution.

when you get it, let me know how it goes

my no limit chip does what i want and it can go further if i want i use mine only on the sand so i can get less turbo lag between gears add to that i have tried a dp chip and a chipit chip that i borrowed from mates all 3 have had the same affect to performance of my car i honestly think the best improvement one can make to there diesal car is a snorkel and blocking the egr pipe i done both these after chipping and IMO the performance gain from standard with snorkel and egr mod was the same as having chip before doing other mods , there is no doubt that with chip pluged in while driving on soft sand that the lag is overcome but thats about it,also i agree with ggcd22 its a bit rude to hijack a thread to promote your own product thought there were rules about that sort of thing

Hi Dieselsmart please explain why the european chips come out with different tunes for aussie vehicles pls. Also you seem to say increasing rail pressure is a bad thing. Am i mistaken? If you are, please tell us how it is a bad thing.

Hi johnbritto,

well you would be the only guy i have ever heard say that

But fair call re posting on this thread. However where people are asking questions I feel I should be able to have my say too. Wouldn't you agree?

Hi,

All i said is there is only so far you can go with it before it throws an engine light, same story with increasing boost or altering anything for that matter. Everything works in moderation

Cars from different countries have different specs so it might be released in australia with 140kw but in europe as 146kw, it will have different timing in the engine so a product that alters injector voltage would be slightly different in europe than australia but I imagine a rail pressure chip would be the same? As far as I'm aware rail pressure chips just alter voltage that the rail sensor reads.. so for example if @ 3500rpm it's meant to read 2.3volts for 28000PSI of pressure, if you take voltage away from the reading so say at 3500rpm it only reads 2.1V it might add an extra 2000PSI of pressure to bring the voltage back up. I don't see how a european car or an australian car would work any differently unless they run different rail voltages...

hope that helps to clear up what I was saying, no harm intended haha

Precisely why having chips purchased with Aussie tunes is important.

Crappy chips work as you mention. Voltage emulation discounted by a %. This is what we would call analogue emulation or at best a 8, 16 or 32 bit processor with static ramp up. That's a dinosaur of a tune. True emulation is a full re-tuned factory map for fuel (and as we do ...boost)

Since we do a injector chip as well as know holding the injector open longer is a form of emulation too. signal comes in for an opening duration of 1.2 mv. The piggy Back ECU (any brand) extends this to say 1.5mv. Still emulating the signal of course.

But horses for courses. Diesel smart do a good job of scaring people into buy their chip with info written BOLDLY on their internet landing page:

"WARNING

DO NOT BUY A CHIP FOR YOUR COMMON RAIL DIESEL

OR FIND YOURSELF BUYING A NEW DIESEL PUMP AND INJECTORS WITHIN TWO YEARS OR WORSE STILL ENGINE FAILURE AFTER AS LITTLE AS 20,000 KMS FROM THE TIME THE CHIP IS FIRST FITTED. "

This is BS as you may or may not know. We have been doing fuel rail chips for years. DP via European brand have been doing it for years longer and I have NEVER heard of a pump failing and we have NEVER had an engine failure ... even after extreme tunes.

As you know (hopefully), a CRD vehicle or chip DOES NOT INCREASE PUMP PRESSURE. The Pump is working at 100% pressure just off idle and the extra pressure is just returned to the tank. When the driver wants more power (via throttle) the factory ECU commands the suction control valve which is a electronically controlled solenoid that sits AFTER THE PUMP to redirect some more pressure to the rail so that the injectors have more head of steam ready for injector signal opening commands.

In no way does a fuel rail chip increase the pump pressure so in no way does the fuel rail chip wear out the pump faster.

In fact we have purposely tried to find a little to the rail, injector lines and injectors with up to 50% more pressure (something we would NEVER give to a customer (it would be a crappy black smoke producing monster) and have never seen a leak or failure (except on a Patrol that has documentary evidence from Nissan saying that Patrol injector lines are a one use only deal. If they are ever touched (removed) they will need NEW replacement lines installed (so that new seals are used). After the line (only one) was installed the leak no longer appeared. This example was carried out by a dealer in QLD.

So if you really wanted to be honest with customers you should remove those comments from your site. My guess is you wont because it works too well

I'm intrigued to know how you can alter a fuel map by plugging into a sensor? All sensors work off voltage readings so I apologize for making a statement that is possibly incorrect. Or do you guys actually plug into the factory ecu? or another sensor of the car?

Correct me if i'm wrong here, regardless of how you alter the rail pressure (analogue or otherwise) you're forcing more diesel at a higher pressure through the same size opening on the injector which is placing more stress on the injector and the diesel pump will work harder to force the pressure through the whole. This will also fatigue the injector itself and possibly cause diesel rattle (so the car will be nosier with increased rail pressure).

for example, next time you're washing your car turn the tap on harder without opening the nozzle on the other end, what happens? it either blows the nozzle off (in this case injector pin) or it blows off at the tap end (in this case damaging the diesel rail). Obviously this doesn't happen on every single car but I've personally seen this sort of damage happen on a Toyota Prado fitted with a commonrail chip.

utter hogwash

next time you monitor the pressure at the injector on a factory STD car, see what happens when you put your foot on the accelerator. the pressure varies by 100%. Do you think Nissan, Toyota or ANY manufacturer has a 20% tolerance on a fuel system? ADR (Australian Design Rules state that a motor vehicles brakes, fuel and safety systems need at least a 150% (normally 200-300% safety factor. Meaning if someone POSSIBLE could put their foot on the brake at 1/4 of a ton in force (for example) the brake pedal for example needs to be able to withstand 3/4 of a ton of force.

So your example, mythical or otherwise, of a fuel rail sh1tting itself by a chip that woul dhave increased pressure there by say 15% means there was a defect would it not. But some in your position would tell stories to others saying the Chip did it.

BTW, has anyone ever held a common rail in their hand? This is ONE HEAVY SON OF A BITCH. try breaking it. A hummer belting it at full force by ironman would not dent it. if anyone wants to have a look at one, feel free to come around and I'll show you. You will not believe it.

The torque to tighten up a fuel limiter states 170nm. That is SWINGING OFF an extension bar with all your might. I have done hundreds and have never broken one or even stripped the thread. Farkkkk they are tight.

and lets not forget that TRD make what ??? a common rail chip that ohh my goodness.... lifts the pressure of the common rail and sell it to the unsuspecting TRD vehicle owner for a whopping $3000.00 (equivalent).

Have you measured the increase pressure? Around 15% extra. Yes the same common rail as the one you say you saw broken by a common rail chip. As mentioned, I have seen many times that increase and NO FAULTS, FAILURES, OR sky falling down.

The truth is, there is no issues. The other truth is, the reason TRD went for a Common Rail Chip is because you get more performance from a common rail chip than you do an injector style chip. We have proven it.

CR Chip Outperforms Injector Chip ... check the Air Fuel Ratios

They also are more efficient since the factory injection period is kept and the pressure from having the injector open longer is not reduced thus causing a poorer spray pattern. that is why Steinbuayer (who are pretty honest in their business affairs) state plainly on their website "UP TO 20% more power.

see here

Mods I do not know how to do this but could we move non tuneit chip posts to the performance chip thread please if others agree??

I think my previous post might be confusing, when I say diesel rail I meant to say diesel pump. It's been a long day!

I have spoken to Mike who is the guru behind Diesel Smart Modules and the programming that goes into them. He is also a diesel fitter by trade and has worked on everything from Trucks right down to your daily 4x4 diesels.

Mike and others in the industry have personally seen the damage that has been caused by aggressive chips that control rail pressures(take into account we use to fit them before we the creation of diesel smart). We have seen injectors fail much earlier in their life due to aggressive ramp rates in fuel pressure and diesel rattle down low in the RPM range due to the fact that too much diesel is being injected at the same injection timing not allowing enough time for the diesel to be combusted properly. That's why you'll see when a diesel rail chip is fitted to a commonrail diesel they will blow more smoke then what they do standard. This is unburnt fuel being combusted in the exhaust. Not something that you want when you're trying to improve fuel economy.

Mike has details of a Nissan Patrol commonrail diesel that had an Australian made diesel chip fitted to it which had complete engine failure. The end of the injector/injector pin had completely failed and approximately 26000 psi of fuel pressure or considerably more as it had a chip fitted blew a whole directly through the piston the same as a water cutter does to steel. The diesel chip company that supplied this chip is aware of the failing of this car as the customer contacted them directly to claim compensation, the response from the chip company to the customer was that there must of been something wrong with the car to start with and not the fault of the chip. how ever this was a very low km car under 80,000 km's and never had any troubles with this car before the chip was fitted. This car was being used to tow heavy loads and the chip was only on it for less then a year. We're not saying that mild increases in rail pressures are harmful but it has been our experience that some chip companies are lifting rail pressures well above what the pump and injectors were engineered to cope with.

Considering that the diesel chip was originally engineered for EFI diesel pumps and increased the fuel pressure to the mechanically operated injectors to increase the amount of diesel being injected where the injector was not electronically controlled this worked very well and we sell diesel chips that work like this for any of the EFI diesel pumps.

The diesel module that is not as well known was specifically designed for commonrail diesels were the injector is electronically controlled. This is why the diesel module is not as well known as it only been around as long as the commonrail diesel has. With a diesel module which plugs into each individual injector we're able to have full control over the injector. Which is the way it was engineered to work. So a module works within the engineering of the engine. The reason that you see chips going to the rail pressure sensors still is when the progression from EFI diesel pumps to the common rail diesel occurred. over night the diesel chip companies were out of business but of course they looked at a different sensor to plug their chip to. It became obvious to put it on the diesel rail sensor, this way they were able to force more diesel into the engine creating more power. but this does not make it the right way to do it. We have seen what happens when these are fitted to commonrail diesels. There is more power to be gained and way better fuel economy to be achieved using a module that plugs into each individual injector and lets face it you should be using a product that has been specifically engineered and design to fit to that engine to keep it within the engineering of its components.

This will be our last comment on this thread. We wish you all the best, but our understanding is your working on a module that plugs into each individual injector and controls the injectors so if a chip isn't bad for a commonrail diesel why would you be doing this?

Im more confused than ever....I think I'll wait for the "Chip Manufacturers" version of death match to decide...can this be arranged?

Chip It said:

Mods I do not know how to do this but could we move non tuneit chip posts to the performance chip thread please if others agree??

Click to expand...

hmm
i have seen you comment on other posts regarding other chips while promoting your product
this debate is very interesting / informative and everyone has a right to there opinion
remember a good proven product should sell itself
i WILL buy a chip shortly
maybee yours (i like the egt safeguard)
maybee someone elses

no need to move post imo

DieselSmart said:

...when you're simply adding rail pressure I don't think it would matter where the car was tested as there is only so much you can do before the car throws a light for seeing to much pressure in the rail.

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That's where some of the chips become truly dangerous.

The ECU doesn't actually know that the fuel rail pressure is high. These chips place a resistive load on the return signal from the fuel rail pressure sensor - so instead of returning 3.4V to the ECU, it's returning 2.7V (as an example), so the ECU thinks that the fuel rail pressure is lower. It's the ECU that actually boosts the pressure so that it's finally getting the expected 3.4V - and some of these guys actually tell you to place shims inside the pressure relief valves!

The voltage figures are used only as a illustration, and may not be the actual voltages you'd get back from the sensor.

Question to both chip it and diesel smart.
Why such a horrible injector rattle when the fuel rail is tricked into producing a higher pressure? Surely this cannot be good?
Under exceleration not so noisy until easing off on the pedal then noisy.

I agree that steinbauer is a safe way to go.No rattle even turned up to full.
I have a race pro chip and it makes the injectors rattle.

sparra04 said:

hmm
i have seen you comment on other posts regarding other chips while promoting your product
this debate is very interesting / informative and everyone has a right to there opinion
remember a good proven product should sell itself
i WILL buy a chip shortly
maybee yours (i like the egt safeguard)
maybee someone elses

no need to move post imo

Click to expand...

Yes what I meant was this thread was specifically titled No Limits Tuning Power Chip and I thought best not to cross pollinate. If all including mods are happy to leave it, then so am I