Turbo trouble

[bringthenav]

Hi all. I was tightening a loose clamp on the front of the baffle on turbo outlet after seeing some oily traces on the silicon-ruber joiner.

While doing so i bumped the hose vacuum hose going into the air intake and broke the plastic tee piece.

It appeared slightly brittle..
While taking the air pipe off to remove the snapped piece in the pipe some of it must have crumbled off and fell into my turbo front fan.

I couldnt see anything..
But when i started it up my turbo doesnt work.

It was previously performing perfect, and is the original garret.

I tried to spin the fan for a couple mins gently turning it with a thin pointer & got it to start to unstick.

Then started it up & it still wouldnt spin, so tried a bit more with it running, until it did.

Went for drive and now it any spools to a max of about 8psi pushing it hard as well to do it & the Navaras driving as of its a big slow truck.

Before that i could easy reach 20-21psi & avg 15-17 all the time.

I poured a tiny bit fresh oil into the fan chamber with it running after thinking some lubrication could help it unstick & if i go for a few drives the little annoying problem might burn and clear by the spinning blades etc under good boost.

It did seem to spin alot nicer after sucking thru a couple gulps of a small amount of oil.

Still no go.
Tried pulling out the vac hose from the air intake & i noticed it made the actuator arm go all the way up.

Revving it i was seeing plenty boost and spooling. 20-25-
But looks like it is over boosting easily n blowing thru blowby into the turbo & obviously i can't drive round like that boosting at 30 or over, and assume i could cause bad damage quickly.

So i can see it still works, just isn't spooling up properly.

I dont have much money right now & i can't afford to buy a new turbo or pay to put it in & or really afford even mates rates to fit.

Anyone recommend what i should try next ?

I figured maybe few drives it might come good?
Run the turbo vac straight to the wastegate temporarily & go for few drives with it boosting properly and im theory unstickying it?
Some sort of cleaner product?
Something flammable thatll burn it thru?

Any help cheers

 

[bringthenav]

Mr Muscle Oven cleaner?
Sounds amusing but if this works safely i would hope i should be sorted!

Watching now..

 

[Rhino1174]

So correct me if I’m wrong you broke tee have you repaired it?? I would say you have a vacuum leak or a boost actuator problem not turbo problem if you can get it to pull 30 psi with straight vacume as stated! when you oopsed the tee did you put all lines back In correct position and no leaks as it sounds like the vacuum is bleeding off before the actuator is operating properly that’s why you got low boost check all lines check boost solenoid a small split or crack in any line where you removed it or loose fitting will cause exact issues your describing I’ve seen it before numerous times

 

[bringthenav]

Hi. Yeh i accidentally leaned and snapped the black tee on the coldpipe while tightening the hotpipe baffle clamps.

Turbo was picture perfect before this.
I undid the cold pipe (a silicon recent replacement from last year) and plucked the snapped piece of tee from the coldpipe.

I noticed upon pulling it out yhe coldpipe part of it was missing!
Meaning it chipped off when i leant on it & a piece of hard plastic tee maybe a 2-3 mm thick & 1.5 long fell into my turbo fan.

I could not see it in the fan.
Should have grabbed a powerful fkn vacuum cleaner in hindsight & tried to suck it out of the turbo inlet.
Even a blower.

But didnt think of that, only now
Reassamble new tee and put coldpipe back on, plug the vacuum into a new tee.

Start her up, go for drive out my driveway, no boost at all.

Pull back in. Fan stuck & had to run it with the coldpipe off and touch it up gently to allow it to spin.

Couple mins of that .. spinning.
Thought i was good. Put coldpipe back on, no boost.

Spinning slow or not at all.
Little lubricating. Spinning.
No proper boost but.
Plug vacuum line from coldpipe with a screw, wastegate full opens.

Test drive, mega 30+ boost.

Its always very very possible i blew a vacuum line as your saying!
Testing it with the high boost.
Makes sense! Theres 1 black crappy vacuum line i still haven't replaced on my solenoid (other fish to fry.. and it worked.. thats the far right solenoid vacuum.. the left two are replaced with new silicon vacuum hoses)

So the one in question is the original not replaced i should look straight at and replace, it was a bit worn looking and 300000km old.

I'll replace it and check if my problems solved and update the thread either way.

Great info by way about theres nothing wrong if i hit high boost with it bypassed. Legend.

I'll go buy some new line and fit tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
Thank you.

 

[bringthenav]

Alas though, even with your advice o am quite certain a little jagged sliv of plastic is jamming my front blades in the turbo a bit.

My hopes arent up a vacuum hose will fix it. I would call it a partial blockage, the high boost with the vacuum trick probably would boosted way higher had there not been some blockage.

Im hoping i can clean it out or burn it away or something, maybe itll just disintegrate and suddenly my car will spool lile it should again.

Annoying problem !!

 

[bringthenav]

I did run a 500ml can of Nulon Diesel Turbo engine cleaner into 40 litres of diesel this arvo also.

Only driven about 10km, had to get home for dinner. No improvement, fair lot of brown gray blackish smoke

Both last night before the can, and still smokey today.

Smoke did appear to be a different browner greeny colour with the treatment after a couple km.

Hopefully it may help, but alas that only covers the exhaust side the turbo. But maybe theres burned plastic gum and carbon itll burn away and i might come good.

 

[Rhino1174]

Alas though, even with your advice o am quite certain a little jagged sliv of plastic is jamming my front blades in the turbo a bit.

My hopes arent up a vacuum hose will fix it. I would call it a partial blockage, the high boost with the vacuum trick probably would boosted way higher had there not been some blockage.

Im hoping i can clean it out or burn it away or something, maybe itll just disintegrate and suddenly my car will spool lile it should again.

Annoying problem !!

It could well be a little bit of plastic in their but if it is capable of pulling 30 psi it’s not bothering it to any extent that’s why I would certainly be checking vacume lines it’s worth a look I for one had similar lack of boost last week after fitting a boost gauge turned out to be a perished line from solenoid to actuator down at solenoid end and I couldn’t see it for the life of me till I took it off and bent the line replaced all vac lines and running a treat now

 

[bringthenav]

Definately will. Starting with the crappy original one. Its possibly split while i was revving it up to try free the plastic & fingers x'ed its all it is.

Great info. I feel hopeful again of solving it for the price of a new vacuum hose

Glad you got yours running a treat
Cheers

 

[bringthenav]

Update: No joy ..
after replacing/checking Turbo Vacuum hoses .

Issue is 100 percent a little bit of hard plastic crap fallen into front of turbo inlet.. slowing it down by least 2-4 times slower to spin

Anyone think if i can disassemble the front of the turbo in situ & clean out the front vanes impeller etc of this foreign material ??

In situ is what would be okay

 

[Old.Tony]

You could have a look. It's unlikely anything would have gotten in behind the impeller, and it's unlikely that anything would stay in there - even plastic - the air at the intake of the turbo is cool, so it shouldn't melt the plastic at that point (past the impeller is a different story, then it depends on the plastic).

 

[bringthenav]

Well as i described, the impeller was stuck solid when this happened, i gently moved it 30 times until it span a bit. Something 'definately' fell in.

The only thing thats making it properly half a week n looking at it, test driving it daily is making the connection to the wastegate directly.

Hooked back up the impeller is not spinning up properly, but on full wastegate open it does,
with overboost. Gauge i got going up to 30psi will show can go up past 30.

Prior to this vacuum cai plastic tee breaking off ( i could see a piece clearly chipped off in the intake end when i retreived it out.

My solenoid 'should' be fine, as it was perfect, as was the turbo .. just did 2000km driving and going like a slingshot. The 5min period i broke the tee piece and some fell in the turbo changed all of that.

**My thoughts now:

Just went for a roll with vac str8 to wastegate. Goes great, but overboost.
My thought is maybe the plastic piece passed by the impeller but has made the wastegate actuator arm almost stuck.

*I tried moving it with car off.
Couldnt move it at all.

Just pulled up, turned it off & plugged vacs back to normal.

UPDATE )
After a 15 min run with bypassed solenoid to wastegate, and starting car all vacuumed to solenoid...
the actuator arm is now 'bobbing a bit' on startup, but not as it should.

Got in, gave a rev, saw my guage shoot up to 10+ psi & heard the turbo whistle for first time since this happened!

But now its only revving to about 6-7.

I think I'm at least onto this!

 

[bringthenav]

Update

After a 10min drive with the d/s vacuum teed straight to the wastegate (via manual boost tee - useless.. it still overboosts),
I pulled up at the parts shop..

Fitted the vacuum back to the solenoid & started it up,
Gave it a rev & saw a healthy 10+ psi on my guage..

Thinking it might have cleared the blockage and might be fixed i looked at the engine bay.

I could see the actuator arm now bobbing but maybe not quite as it should, gave it more revs & it sadly dropped to 5+ psi max, then back to 2+ then about nothing again.

No more bobbing at all. Stuck down.
Turned off. Cannot manually move the arm a millimetre!
Its just stuck down.
No going up.

So i fitted it back to the wastegate directly & drove 10min home.

Its not fixed.. either the plastic blockage has gone thru & interfering with the actuator arm making it stick, or maybe its gummed up alot needing more turbo cleaner,
I would like to see that bobbing come back then i would be fixed.

I drove home with it boosting hard on the direct link to wastegate.

Left it parked for the night.

Not sure what to do next.

 

[Chapster]

So many thoughts.

Firstly, I am not aware of any vacuum line t-piece on the air intake. My YD25 has a vac line from the pump on the d/s which goes IN to the solenoid, then the solenoid has two further vac lines OUT, one to the turbo actuator and one (the bleed) to the charged air pipe coming from the turbo.
EDIT: That's wrong. The bleed to atmosphere is on the air intake side not the charged air pipe. My mistake.

Second, you also refer to a wastegate but the GT2056V is a VNT with the actuator opening and closing internal vanes to regulate boost. No wastegate.

Third your boost prior to this incident was very good (15-17psi average) and your 30+ psi over-boost during testing is very high. Your ECU would normally intervene before you got that high.

Do you perchance have a custom turbo set-up? Are you able to send a picture, incl of the replaced t-piece?

Either way, seems extremely odd to me you can have both a stuck or restricted compressor and overboost. Certainly can't be at the same time!

You say the actuator pulls all the way up when you remove the vac line from the "air intake", so that is somehow increasing vacuum to your turbo.

On mine the actuator lifts to the top under maximum vacuum, which incidentally is closing the vanes and so increasing exhaust gas pressure on the turbine for low engine speeds. If you give it the berries (high engine speeds) with the vanes in the more closed position you will definitely get big boost (and risk destroying your turbo).

My thought is maybe the plastic piece passed by the impeller but has made the wastegate actuator arm almost stuck.

That is not possible (with the above Garret turbo at least). The actuator controls the vanes on the hot side of the turbo. No foreign object can travel over (internally at least) from the cold/compressor side.

At this point I'm with @Rhino1174 . Seems like a dodgy solenoid or incorrectly replaced vac lines. Look forward to seeing a picture though.

 

[Erick]

Variable vane turbos have one drawback and that is the variable vane(exhaust/hot side) are known to play up. I would be worth dismantling the turbo and have it inspected by someone with experience before u do some major damage to the turbo or engine

 

[Rhino1174]

unfortunately it’s the dreaded 4 T syndrome my father always told me, if it has tits, tyres or a turbo = Trouble no offense to our female members and this one really has me baffled sorry I can’t offer anymore advice apart from triple check everything from solenoid operation to actuator to then pulling turbo and having it looked at by someone

 

[bringthenav]

Hi everyone.
Thanks Chapster for the detailed super long reply, to my super long Dilemma.

Yes its so many thoughts!
Theres couple variables.
Ps. I run a stock turbo & everything.

My latest update is i am looking at it now. It seems there def was some obstruction with tiny pieces of plastic i broke off by accident on the air intake where the far left (i feel like a politician lol) vacuum that goes to the cold air intake pipe snapped when accidentally leaning across it unfortunately.. to tighten some better baffle clamping, as i was getting intermittent limp mode from slight boost leak from there.

Some of my words might not been the correct technical part term,
But most people get my drift, so pls bear with me if some the names incorrect.. when i refer to wastegate i mean the blasted actuator.
When i refer to the vacuum on the intake. Yes there is one. Coming off the far left of the boost solenoid.
Its probably called Vac if we want to get all technical.
I know what i am doing and i know what i am talking about.

Absolutely NO VACUUM SOLENOID BOOST LINES ARE HOOKED ON CORRECT OR EVEN PLAYED WITH.

UNTIL THIS CRAP FELL INTO MY AIR INTAKE OFF THE PLASTIC STOCK VAC PLASTIC PIECE (OFF THE CAI PIPE REPLACED SILICON ONE A YEAR AGO) SNAPPED OFF AND FELL INTO MY INLET TURBO VANE,
I WAD MAKING 120-140 SUPER EASILY FOR EXAMPLE, AND ALWAYS SEEING MAX 20-21 PSI BOOSTON MY FITTED BOOST GUAGE OFFMY BLASTED INTERCOOLER.

EXCUSE MY ANGER ABOUT MY PROBLEM. As i had none before this piece of crap plastic vacuum connector atop the intake pipe snapped & ibe had 15 cars and turbo cars and plenty of work, rebuilding heads, fitting new things, successful repairs and whatever for years, and ive had a little random mistake thats let a tiny piece of plastic possibly root my turbo for over a week now, im broke, cant really do highway runs to work & recently spent a lot relocating plus tuning up this beast and had it running perfect, so i am super furious really at anything and at myself. Worst possible timing.

Okay.


See video.
*Turbo seems to be spinning real nicely on idle now, however, give a rev/drive out carpark theres no boost, hit some 2-3000 or so it will get up to maybe 8-12 max.

No actuator bobbing.
Video for example.
Not bobbing when intake pipe back in place. Turbo performing about 1/4 or 1/3 as good as it should.

Has slightly improved from trying to clean the turbo, and trying to blow out & suck out the crap with it turned off & with it running but still seems something in there or actuator arm become stuck slightly up by the obstruction? As it looks to be sitting HEAPS HIGHER (8MM!!) than the white mark on the arm and

*Kind of like the obstruction cleared somewhat and is slowly improving
ANYWAY what i think i am faced with:

See video everyone.

Culprits now look like


A) actuator arm became sticky during this, or was about to.
Theres no bobbing.
However put finger on far left solenoid vac, itll lift easily.

OR wastegate stuck up a bit and can't bob due to obstruction got to in its path!??

When i take finger off as if it was in the airtake sucking air in, no bobbing.

It used to bob, ive noticed it.
And i am new to this vehicle and diesels, with only 12 months behind me, but have had to do so muchto this Navara i now probably know a fair bit, so I'm doing my best to describe the issues and possible causes. I dont expect detailed replies. Short is best.
Let me explain in detail, reply to me in short people.



B) solenoid was OK but on way & died while test driving it with the actuator plumbed straight to the drivers side vacuum, i probably have done 20-30km testing & feathering accel watching my guage so i never go over 30 psi overboosting too much.

This was a theory i thought might clear the obstruction.
It doesn't seem to have worked.

Current thought:
Sticky actuator arm.
(Pls feel free to advise how to remove and clean or clean in situ.
Just tried bit of wd40. No joy as yet.

feel free point me at tuts how remove & clean !


2) Solenoid might have carked it during the testing & abuse of running with a turbo inlet obstruction.

I have a replacement on order ! )

Thanks everyone else for your input and patience. Excuse my lengthy posts etc. I just NEED to get to the bottom of this,for free or cheap and yesterday?

 

[Rhino1174]

Hi I get the frustration I think the solenoid replacement is your best bet the actuator is moving fine you have proved that in vid so it has to be a control issue and that can only be the solenoid itself as you have also proved it with overboost with straight vacume bypassing the solenoid so only thing in the system not allowing correct boost is the solenoid

 

[bringthenav]

Cut a long story short i reckon its just basically now my actuator arm possibly not going all way down
& Maybe tricking the solenoid or ecu or something like that.

I can see the white out mark on the arm & the mark on the metal housing behind it dont match.

The arm mark looks to be sitting at least 5-8mm higher.

Unsure if it was set this way previously, but assuming maybe not as boost was always 21+ psi on average/max.

If it isn't that its the solenoid becoming faulty during the small piece hard plastic crud going into the turbo intake, maybe rendering the solenoid unserviceable ?

Or its just blockage is still there somewhere in the vanes or under or around the actuator arm at the bottom.

Possibly removing the actuator and arm might be able fix the issue!

If anyone can recommend a good youtube tut on removing it, i should be able to do myself or with my mechanic buddy easily over a beer

Thanks again

 

[Old.Tony]

It sounds to me like the Boost Control Solenoid (BCS) isn't doing the work it should.

1) Attaching the vac line to the actuator brings on full boost. This says to me that the turbocharger is functioning more than adequately when it is commanded to open fully.

2) Being able to get overboost also means that the vanes and actuator arm are all functioning properly. At this stage I would suggest there is NO problem with the turbo at all.

3) The ECU is supposed to command the BCS to adjust the vacuum (100 times per second). Any vac leak, or BCS fault (whether that's a sticky/busted solenoid within, or just a bad electrical connection) will hamper this. This is where I now think the issue is. The video strongly supports this notion. The vacuum hoses look new, so the only remaining possibility is the BCS itself or its electrical connections.

 

[bringthenav]

It sounds to me like the Boost Control Solenoid (BCS) isn't doing the work it should.

1) Attaching the vac line to the actuator brings on full boost. This says to me that the turbocharger is functioning more than adequately when it is commanded to open fully.

2) Being able to get overboost also means that the vanes and actuator arm are all functioning properly. At this stage I would suggest there is NO problem with the turbo at all.

3) The ECU is supposed to command the BCS to adjust the vacuum (100 times per second). Any vac leak, or BCS fault (whether that's a sticky/busted solenoid within, or just a bad electrical connection) will hamper this. This is where I now think the issue is. The video strongly supports this notion. The vacuum hoses look new, so the only remaining possibility is the BCS itself or its electrical connections.

Thanks Old Tony !!

Yeh thats very reassuring news & i hope so. I've got a cheapo eBay one on order arriving any day.

I havea cheapo one in a box of parts i bought a year ago but it seemed DOA so i just used the stocker which seemed to function A okay.

I can't wait til this solenoid shows up, its meant to cover all 3 or 4 part numbers, seems all the ebayer ones generally do.

Yep, all hoses are new, even replaced all today with new just to rule out hoses.

Hopefully that new solenoid works.. 5min & im back in biz.

Failing that i better buy a proper one from whoever sells the stock part (denso? Bosch?Anyone but nissan!)

Can't afford to take out a mortgage for a nissan but can scratch up enough to spend $200 odd on a genuine new bcs.

Any recommendations of links/phone no anyone?

Anywhere in Australia that ships or is local to Sydney greater area.