dieseltuner left the workshop and went to work for another. he has deleted his posts here as they where not under his own name as such.
info is still on patrol forum as per the link above.
info is still on patrol forum as per the link above.
Diesel Chips / Diesel Tuning - How Its Done
- Thread starter DieselTuner2
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DieselTuner2
Member
Sorry for taking this info down when I did guys, due to work circumstances I couldnt leave it up.
Mods were kind enough to fix up the username problem and I have put the body of the write up back up.
It is getting a little dated now, I will endeavor to go through when I get time and update details on chip manufacturers as well as new technologies that are out.
Mods were kind enough to fix up the username problem and I have put the body of the write up back up.
It is getting a little dated now, I will endeavor to go through when I get time and update details on chip manufacturers as well as new technologies that are out.
EdgeLectrics
Member
Hey DieselTuner,
I had a read through your post and found it very informative. Thanks very much.
What I'm not sure of is what type of chip the I have. I'm in the process of purchasing an 03 D22 with the ZD30. It's been advertised as having the chip it diesel power chip. How does this particular chip function?
Apologies if it seems like a daft question but I'm new to diesels and 4x4 and would like to understand what is going on with my engine when the chip is Installed.
Cheers,
Chris
I had a read through your post and found it very informative. Thanks very much.
What I'm not sure of is what type of chip the I have. I'm in the process of purchasing an 03 D22 with the ZD30. It's been advertised as having the chip it diesel power chip. How does this particular chip function?
Apologies if it seems like a daft question but I'm new to diesels and 4x4 and would like to understand what is going on with my engine when the chip is Installed.
Cheers,
Chris
DieselTuner
Member
Gday Chris,
The zd30 in your car operates under the spill valve type of pump.
So the chip it will be controlling how much more fuel can go into the engine by adjusting the value going to this valve.
It is a very simple way of doing it, and basically the same as any other brand of chip does it on that type of pump.
EdgeLectrics
Member
Cheers DT, I'll do some reading on the spill valve and how the fuel system works on the ZD30.
Thanks again,
Chris
Thanks again,
Chris
MattyzST
Member
DieselTuner,
I'm new to Nissan and own a Thai 2011 D40, i was sceptical on buying this car because of problems some people were having (that seem to have gone pretty quiet).
I was interested in Chipping it but honestly have been too scared. Nissan have spent millions researching the YD25 to reach the output levels they deliver when you purchase the car.
Does chipping the engine reduce the life or speed up any potential problems that may be wanting to rear their ugly mugs?
I would love to Chip my D40 but would like to know if any problems people are having are due to installing a Performance Chip before i go ahead and become a statistic.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
I'm new to Nissan and own a Thai 2011 D40, i was sceptical on buying this car because of problems some people were having (that seem to have gone pretty quiet).
I was interested in Chipping it but honestly have been too scared. Nissan have spent millions researching the YD25 to reach the output levels they deliver when you purchase the car.
Does chipping the engine reduce the life or speed up any potential problems that may be wanting to rear their ugly mugs?
I would love to Chip my D40 but would like to know if any problems people are having are due to installing a Performance Chip before i go ahead and become a statistic.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
DieselTuner
Member
Chipping can reduce engine life if it is done incorrectly.
To do it right you want something that can manipulate all the key factors in tuning. Injection timing, boost and fuel control.
You can get good gains out of most engines by setting these 3 things to suit the cars and the conditions without to much extra strain on the engine or any of its components.
Chips that do 1 or 2 of these things like only fuel or fuel and timing have to lean on those 2 paramaters harder to get the power gains so they do start chewing into longevity alot harder than a more powerful chip.
D40's can take another few psi of boost, a few degrees of timing and with some air flow upgrades like an intercooler and intake upgrade some extra fuel as well.
Chip Tuning
Member
However, you would have to push 1 or 2 very hard to get things to fail. So rare is this that I personally have NEVER seen it, no matter whose chip you talk about.
Moderate increases in rail OR injectors will not show higher wear than standard tuning truthfully speaking.
If this were not the case DP, Roo, Rapid, TunIt, Steinbauyer, and all the other international chip makers on the market (including us) would have millions of customers collectively complaining that their injectors etc have failed. The truth is you just don't see this. You may see one company saying they have seen this on someone's product but was it directly related to a "chip"??? Obviously that is hard (or impossible) to say. It cause and most likely is, just aggressive marketing. (ie torpedo the opposition)
If you look at the very reputable Steinbauyer's website they say "up to 20%" torque gain not because pushing the injectors open for a longer causes injector wear, but because the engine will blow black smoke, period.
We also see this on our Rail, Boost and Injector tuning (Dom3) Performance Module.
On my car, I push the rail and injectors extremely hard (a lot harder than any tune I would put on someone else's car) and I have not had any issue.
Also we have given to some select customers very high tunes and no one has said they have seen any issues so far. I am talking about customers from up to 5 and 6 years ago as well.
What I do agree with DT on, is that the D40 can take a little bit of boost but I would not go more than 2 or 3 psi. I have seen 2 D40s snap turbo shafts with 4 to 5 psi. Some overseas tuners have also spoken about the weaker shafts on the D40 turbo (say compared to the D22 that has old school waste gate)
Take it from someone that has had first hand experience. 3 psi max.
Moderate increases in rail OR injectors will not show higher wear than standard tuning truthfully speaking.
If this were not the case DP, Roo, Rapid, TunIt, Steinbauyer, and all the other international chip makers on the market (including us) would have millions of customers collectively complaining that their injectors etc have failed. The truth is you just don't see this. You may see one company saying they have seen this on someone's product but was it directly related to a "chip"??? Obviously that is hard (or impossible) to say. It cause and most likely is, just aggressive marketing. (ie torpedo the opposition)
If you look at the very reputable Steinbauyer's website they say "up to 20%" torque gain not because pushing the injectors open for a longer causes injector wear, but because the engine will blow black smoke, period.
We also see this on our Rail, Boost and Injector tuning (Dom3) Performance Module.
On my car, I push the rail and injectors extremely hard (a lot harder than any tune I would put on someone else's car) and I have not had any issue.
Also we have given to some select customers very high tunes and no one has said they have seen any issues so far. I am talking about customers from up to 5 and 6 years ago as well.
What I do agree with DT on, is that the D40 can take a little bit of boost but I would not go more than 2 or 3 psi. I have seen 2 D40s snap turbo shafts with 4 to 5 psi. Some overseas tuners have also spoken about the weaker shafts on the D40 turbo (say compared to the D22 that has old school waste gate)
Take it from someone that has had first hand experience. 3 psi max.
happy john
Member
55K on mine now with the original Chipit running 19psi boost,it's as good as when I put it in last dyno was 156hp at the wheels no failures to report in 2 years and 90% of the time that's towing,I am pleased.
DieselTuner
Member
Engines fail with and without any modifications. Could be poor maintenance, bad fuel, stuffed air filter and on the list goes.
I have helped a few overseas members tune their D40s above 300hp and none of them have failed, but on each of those, massive water90%/methanol10% systems are keeping combustion temps significantly lower than would otherwise be possible.
Id say if we didnt have those on board the pistons would have been cracked by now.
In saying that, how long will their fuel system and engine last?
Things that kill injectors are water, dirt and hot fuel. The lubrication chemicals that are present in diesel do break down under temperature, so if by pushing the rail pressures significantly higher you are increasing the temperature of the fuel that is on the way to the injector.
Again its a case of the chicken or the egg, I would say 99% of the time it is passed off as factory faults or dirt ingestion etc..
I have helped a few overseas members tune their D40s above 300hp and none of them have failed, but on each of those, massive water90%/methanol10% systems are keeping combustion temps significantly lower than would otherwise be possible.
Id say if we didnt have those on board the pistons would have been cracked by now.
In saying that, how long will their fuel system and engine last?
Things that kill injectors are water, dirt and hot fuel. The lubrication chemicals that are present in diesel do break down under temperature, so if by pushing the rail pressures significantly higher you are increasing the temperature of the fuel that is on the way to the injector.
Again its a case of the chicken or the egg, I would say 99% of the time it is passed off as factory faults or dirt ingestion etc..
Chip Tuning
Member
DT you mean it is passed off because it IS a factory issue ... like Toyota injectors that had a history of failing after 30,000kms with a stock engine?
Are you setting up the water meth kits remotely or just supplying advice?
Yes I agree water /meth kits are super. I am going to do other one soon. Should again be able to run water / meth or straight petrol. Fully tuneable.
What kits have you used and what is your experience with them. (the good, the bad and the ugly)
Are you setting up the water meth kits remotely or just supplying advice?
Yes I agree water /meth kits are super. I am going to do other one soon. Should again be able to run water / meth or straight petrol. Fully tuneable.
What kits have you used and what is your experience with them. (the good, the bad and the ugly)
DieselTuner
Member
The Toyota's were a bad run thats for sure, but that was circa 2007-9. Dont see that kind of stuff very often anymore.
But what Im getting at is who can say if the injector failed for no reason or it failed due to increased fuel temperature?
If you go to a dealer and there is a chip fitted to the car they are well within their rights to refuse any warranty claim (fuel or engine system related). There is enough hard evidence to show that yes, fitting a chip can damage an injector or kill an engine regardless of how common or rare that may be.
With the overseas cars I supplied unichips and schematics for various control systems with boost and water/meth systems and some training on how to use the whole setup. Then just advice from that point on.
As for the water meth kits. The best of them is Earls Aquamist. I use this on drag and rally cars as it has the most failsafes and is the most reliable of them. More expensive but you can run multiple direct port injection.
Most diesels I would use a kit from Coolingmist. Great little unit that fits inside a 52mm gauge pod. Easy to install and setup.
Other ones are AEM, Devils Own, Snow Performance, Alcohol injection systems or a diy kit.
ive basically listed them all in order of best to worst (not to say any of them are bad)
But what Im getting at is who can say if the injector failed for no reason or it failed due to increased fuel temperature?
If you go to a dealer and there is a chip fitted to the car they are well within their rights to refuse any warranty claim (fuel or engine system related). There is enough hard evidence to show that yes, fitting a chip can damage an injector or kill an engine regardless of how common or rare that may be.
With the overseas cars I supplied unichips and schematics for various control systems with boost and water/meth systems and some training on how to use the whole setup. Then just advice from that point on.
As for the water meth kits. The best of them is Earls Aquamist. I use this on drag and rally cars as it has the most failsafes and is the most reliable of them. More expensive but you can run multiple direct port injection.
Most diesels I would use a kit from Coolingmist. Great little unit that fits inside a 52mm gauge pod. Easy to install and setup.
Other ones are AEM, Devils Own, Snow Performance, Alcohol injection systems or a diy kit.
ive basically listed them all in order of best to worst (not to say any of them are bad)
Chip Tuning
Member
Many tuners and chip manufactures would love to see this "hard evidence" DT. Especially since many hundreds of thousands (dare I say it millions) of users out, including commercial fleet that have hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the engine NEVER see issues. Even similar vehicles with chips don't see issues. Why is that? I can bet London to a brick its because there is enough engineering built into FUEL systems and components have many times a safety margin (as do braking and steering systems). They have to as failures in these components can cause injury or death.
And you would steer many customers wrong if you say "Dealers are well within their rights to refuse any warranty claim..."
As many switched on consumers undoubtedly now know Australian Consumer laws places the onus squarely with the dealer/manufacturer to PROVE that the aftermarket part was a DIRECT CAUSE of the fault.
IE they cannot just say, the Chip or winch or raised suspension or exhaust caused that mate. . Well we all know they do try this all the time of course because its financially much more lucrative for them to get you to believe whatever you did to the car is YOUR problem (ie if warranty they receive a set hourly rate of say $30.00 for say 2.5 hrs and they are supplied the part for free from the manufacturer. If they convince you that its your fault then they charge you $130.00 per hour (at whatever hrs they want to charge you ... maybe the apprentice took 5 hrs) and charge out the parts at full tilt retail!!!. Thats an awful big difference for the dealer's bottom line.
But ask the dealer to put that in writing (that the aftermarket part caused the issue without first getting an engineer to inspect and report on it) and see how quickly they back away from that statement. Its ILLEGAL. They know it and more and more consumers know it now.
As we know Chips may cause an underlying issue to surface but rarely have I heard/seen/experienced a chip cause issues UNLESS someone stuffed a tune and the engine ran hot. Another reason we choose to sell our performance modules WITH EGT Controllers. Just helping safeguard the engine.
Re Aquamist from UK. Yes I know this system. Good system. I'm about to have a system released that will compare favourably to that brand ... but thats another story.
What do you pay for Aquamist?
And you would steer many customers wrong if you say "Dealers are well within their rights to refuse any warranty claim..."
As many switched on consumers undoubtedly now know Australian Consumer laws places the onus squarely with the dealer/manufacturer to PROVE that the aftermarket part was a DIRECT CAUSE of the fault.
IE they cannot just say, the Chip or winch or raised suspension or exhaust caused that mate. . Well we all know they do try this all the time of course because its financially much more lucrative for them to get you to believe whatever you did to the car is YOUR problem (ie if warranty they receive a set hourly rate of say $30.00 for say 2.5 hrs and they are supplied the part for free from the manufacturer. If they convince you that its your fault then they charge you $130.00 per hour (at whatever hrs they want to charge you ... maybe the apprentice took 5 hrs) and charge out the parts at full tilt retail!!!. Thats an awful big difference for the dealer's bottom line.
But ask the dealer to put that in writing (that the aftermarket part caused the issue without first getting an engineer to inspect and report on it) and see how quickly they back away from that statement. Its ILLEGAL. They know it and more and more consumers know it now.
As we know Chips may cause an underlying issue to surface but rarely have I heard/seen/experienced a chip cause issues UNLESS someone stuffed a tune and the engine ran hot. Another reason we choose to sell our performance modules WITH EGT Controllers. Just helping safeguard the engine.
Re Aquamist from UK. Yes I know this system. Good system. I'm about to have a system released that will compare favourably to that brand ... but thats another story.
What do you pay for Aquamist?
DieselTuner
Member
If I built and tuned a car, and the owner then took it and modified it/retuned it leading to problems or something to break I would not honor a warranty. And I reckon that's fair.
With any increase in power comes an increase in cylinder pressures, so if a failure is a piston or rod or head gasket etc.... It is almost impossible for the dealer to be put at fault if the owner modified anything to do with the fueling or air flow of the engine.
Even if the EGT's are lower than standard, that doesnt mean a mod is safe. Nissan Head office will come back with a very impressive letter on cylinder pressure and its effects if you were to take them to fair trading. I have seen it and it is dead accurate - instantly null and void warranty claim.
Thats my take on it though, I dont want to get into a back and forward sling match so fair enough to agree to disagree on this matter.
Cant remember how much the last Kit I brought was. Around the $1100 mark from memory.
With any increase in power comes an increase in cylinder pressures, so if a failure is a piston or rod or head gasket etc.... It is almost impossible for the dealer to be put at fault if the owner modified anything to do with the fueling or air flow of the engine.
Even if the EGT's are lower than standard, that doesnt mean a mod is safe. Nissan Head office will come back with a very impressive letter on cylinder pressure and its effects if you were to take them to fair trading. I have seen it and it is dead accurate - instantly null and void warranty claim.
Thats my take on it though, I dont want to get into a back and forward sling match so fair enough to agree to disagree on this matter.
Cant remember how much the last Kit I brought was. Around the $1100 mark from memory.
im intrigued with the water or water/meth injection.
Diesel tuner would you say the cost involved would be worth it for my 2013 st with
dtuk module, intercooler pipes(soon to be all new cooler), 2.75'' exhaust, snorkel and k&n?
I dont do much towing at all and current post turbo egts max out at 450 c when doing a long up hill power run. normal cruising/highway sees 250-300c
Diesel tuner would you say the cost involved would be worth it for my 2013 st with
dtuk module, intercooler pipes(soon to be all new cooler), 2.75'' exhaust, snorkel and k&n?
I dont do much towing at all and current post turbo egts max out at 450 c when doing a long up hill power run. normal cruising/highway sees 250-300c
DieselTuner
Member
It is probably the best money per kw you can spend on any diesel.
At the flick of a switch it can add 20-30kw + Lower egt's by 50-100deg.
Budget system with self install will set you back $200-$300
Full blown top of the line system paying someone else to install with custom tank + tune $1500.
At the flick of a switch it can add 20-30kw + Lower egt's by 50-100deg.
Budget system with self install will set you back $200-$300
Full blown top of the line system paying someone else to install with custom tank + tune $1500.
Thats all i needed to know cheers.
What nozzle position would you recommend for a mild setup. i like the sound of pre turbo benefits but i dont want the extra risk of turbo damage. Post turbo/pre intercooler seems like a good spot
DieselTuner
Member
Intake manifold is best for most applications. Water can condense and pool through the intercooler especially where long lengths of pipe are present.
Chip Tuning
Member
I don't this to go back and forth either however a letter from Nissan Chief Engineer in Japan's stating how things work etc does not cut it. Fair trading will require an engineer's report ON THAT vehicle's particular issue.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying what would have caused it but just that the law is on the consumer's side and the Dealer giving a quick fob off is not the correct or legal practice. And I as a consumer first and foremost agree with it. I believe most others would not want it any other way either.
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