Using Inverters In Vehicles

[Krankin]

Need a drawing mate, I understand your explanation, but it sounds like the two 230v systems are not complety separated.
Normally there is two contactors, and must have an interlock between the two, or a changeover switch that like the two contactors locks in one supply or the other with no chance of both,
and,
includes all active conductors (N is an active conductor).
This in the case of a caravan for example will not provide a live pin/pins at the caravan mains inlet plug from the alternative supply, in the case of mains from the park is down and you plug in your 12/230V to keep things operating and with the park cable still plugged in someone cops it.
Both systems must be electrically isolated.
Earthing is another matter again and I hesitate to comment as over the years as a sparky have seen many changes to earthing requirements and mostly concerning alternative supplies connecting to mains supplied installations( gensets & inverters),
so again without the relevent standard before me, thats how it is.
Gensets i can relate as I have the standards and past experience, though caravans is a new ballgame on top.

ps: by the way, unless its changed very recently, inverters are banned from use on victorian construction sites.
Gensets must conform to the current standards and do not include Earth Electrodes.

and again this work legally must be performed by a licenced elec., (just generally, not picking at you).



.

 

[Old.Tony]

They are isolated, because the relay's a DPDT type, active down one line, neutral down the other. I wasn't going to let one impact the other. I thought that might create a little disaster. I'll try to get a drawing together.

 

[Krankin]

They are isolated, because the relay's a DPDT type, active down one line, neutral down the other. I wasn't going to let one impact the other. I thought that might create a little disaster. I'll try to get a drawing together.

but is it just one relay or two.

 

[Old.Tony]

Just one. Why would it need two, unless I had to split the earth as well? Is there a triple pole double throw relay? I better go look.

 

[Old.Tony]

Okay, I found one here. I'll go buy one tomorrow and change the system over.

 

[Krankin]

you need two to separate the two 230v systems.
I'll find some pics that are not copyrighted and post them.

 

[sproga]

Just a sideways shift on the subject the Toyota Prado comes with a 220AC Power Socket Standard now, thought id through that in to the discussion

 

[Krankin]

220Vac is not legal currency in Australia.

 

[joshman]

220Vac is not legal currency in Australia.

True, but it is at the bottom end of the variance that you see out there. 230/400Vac is considered the norm voltages these days.

 

[Old.Tony]

I'd heard that the Prado came with inverters. It seems like a great many people use the technology, but I'm not yet able to get my hands on AS3001 so I can't say what the regs actually state.

But, knowing that a manufacturer is including them in the vehicle, you'd have to think that a competently-connected unit (perhaps with RCD built in) would comply with the standard.

 

[justdrinkbeer]

You won't find an RCD in them as an RCD does nothing on an inverter supply.
Tony, might have plenty off cuts of that 10mm cable you can have, i'll be going to coffs in a week or so, i can meet you somewhere and drop it off?

 

[Krankin]

I

But, knowing that a manufacturer is including them in the vehicle, you'd have to think that a competently-connected unit (perhaps with RCD built in) would comply with the standard.

I would'nt bet on that..

 

[Krankin]

You won't find an RCD in them as an RCD does nothing on an inverter supply.

my inverter and rcd outlet box must be posessed then as the rcd works fine...no mods...straight out the box.

 

[sproga]

That was throw that into the discussion last night not {through} was abit stuffed=long days.It would be interesting if someone could find out abit more about Toyota's fitting of 220ac socket in there Prados.
If there doing it you can bet others are going to follow.

 

[Old.Tony]

I would'nt bet on that..

If they don't comply with the standard, what the hell are they putting them on our roads then?

 

[justdrinkbeer]

Your RCD probably trips when you push the test button as all that does is check the latching mechanism, get a sparky to put an RCD trip test on it, better still ramp test it and it won't be doing anything

 

[justdrinkbeer]

Long winded explanation of exactly how RCD's work available if anyone wants it

 

[Old.Tony]

You won't find an RCD in them as an RCD does nothing on an inverter supply.
Tony, might have plenty off cuts of that 10mm cable you can have, i'll be going to coffs in a week or so, i can meet you somewhere and drop it off?

I was having a chat with an auto electrician friend who said that there are three types of weld flex - one of them is aluminium based, and that's just a disaster waiting to happen in a motor vehicle - mostly because aluminium, having a coarser crystalline structure than copper (anyone that's done metallurgy will know this as aluminium under an electron microscope looks like badly built Lego) is more brittle than copper. Also, the VOP (Velocity of Propagation) through aluminium is lower than copper, so copper's resistance per metre is lower (copper's VOP is between 0.6C and 0.77C depending on the alloy and dielectric, whereas aluminium can be as low as 0.45C). Aluminium weld flex might be different to normal aluminium but for a vehicle that's going to be hammered by corrugations for miles and miles, it's a risk.

Ok, so if that stuff's copper or tinned copper, yeah let's have a handful of it when are you going to Coffs? I can pay for the metres no problem, there's no sense in you being out of pocket. As for how much I need ... I'm re-wiring my whole Navara with it, so I am doing two cables from front to rear where I'll built in a junction box and from there I'll run up to the tub. That's about *counts fingers* 10 metres all up for each line. I can have $60 handy ... now, when?

 

[justdrinkbeer]

Hi Tony,

Yeah its Copper, Wouldn't consider Aluminium.

I'll let you know what off cuts I end up with early next week, heading to coffs Sat (3rd?) back monday (5th?)

 

[Old.Tony]

That was throw that into the discussion last night not {through} was abit stuffed=long days.It would be interesting if someone could find out abit more about Toyota's fitting of 220ac socket in there Prados.
If there doing it you can bet others are going to follow.

Toyota's web page for the Prado lists a 220VAC outlet (and 2x12V outlets).

I guess we'll have to have a look inside next time we're pulling one out of a mudhole.