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Malcolm you good thing you ! look out Tony the knives are being sharpened as we speak !
Any body who has had anything to do with telephony knows that the frequency spectrum for wireless signals is very full and prone to interference, the only limit to what can be sent down an optic fibre is the equipment at either end, it basically has an unlimited capacity.
sure the cable is dearer to lay initially but can be upgraded far cheaper as time goes on and needs no maintenance unless damaged OUCH $$$$$$.
 
Malcolm Turnbull is the only Liberal I dont mind but I think he should have got a better position.

Why get him to try and destroy a good thing ?

Give him something to do that we can win and be right, instead of giving him a job of talking rubbish and giving us a inferior product.

Dave.
 
I think fibre to commercial premises is a must, but personally, I don't care if I have 10gig broadband in my lounge room, and I dare say 99% of the population would feel the same way. What I think would be money better spent would be the improvement of our mobile networks to enable mobile devices to have access to ADSL2+ speeds. Let's face it, young people (who will inevitably be the future of this country) don't sit with a PC plugged into the wall accessing the internet anymore. They use their mobile phones, laptops iPads etc and want mobility and accessibility. The scope for mobile broadband is not limited to WWW and communications, we could have on-board computer systems connected to the mobile broadband network, downloading the latest traffic data, engine management upgrades - the sky is the limit.

So why should we limit ourselves in spending so much money ($43b+ is a f**king lot of our taxpayer dollars!!) on one technology, which may even be superseeded by the time it's in the ground. And that's all on the assumption that Labor can even successfully implement and project manage the massive rollout and it all goes relatively smoothly and meets budget (judging by their recent record of managing large-scale rollouts, I am not confident...)
 
So far I have found mobile broadband to be a bit of a gadget and that is about it. It might be handy to be able to have an Ipad at home and sit on the couch reading forums if the telly is boring, but wireless is still so unreliable and patchy that to spruik it as a proper replacement for fixed broadband as the opposition does is just silly.

If I am out and about, I am happy enough to accept that I will have degraded performance, I am happy to accept that I may be homed to a cell which currently has umpteen users on it so it will be slow to check up on the map of where I am going or whatever I wanted to look at. I am also prepared to accept that it might perform slowly as I am too far from a base station, or that it might not work at all and I might have to wander around to find somewhere it works. But if I am at home and want to use an Ipad or similar device, I will want it hanging off a WiFi connection that is close enough to be bulletproof reliable and fast and is homed off a fixed connection that does not cost me a bazillaion dollars because I decided to sit there all month watching youtube videos.


Fibre is here and now and the bandwidth available here and now is capable of being vastly in excess of current requirements, down the track with simple hardware changes it can be updated to cater to even higher speeds.

Wireless is here, now, slower, patchy, unreliable, as speed variable as ADSL is and as distance dependant and to give speeds comparable to the NBN fibre proposal relies on technologies that are not even out of the labs yet. And even when they are, to provide those speeds will require vast numbers of base stations to be fibred anyway! There are only so many you can hang of microwave hops before the bandwith of the microwave links becomes the issue.

Someone put it to me pretty well.

Fibre is what you want if you can get it.
Wireless is what you put up with if you can not get fibre (I suspect that I will be just outside fibre coverage myself)
Satellite is what you put up with if you can not even get wireless.
 
I think the most important issue is being missed here, who's going to promise me a super high speed connection to my fridge. No one uses mobile phones or personal computers to get on the net any more the fridge is where it's at and as soon as Engel realise we also need fridge net while we are camping things just aren't going to work.
 
I think the most important issue is being missed here, who's going to promise me a super high speed connection to my fridge. No one uses mobile phones or personal computers to get on the net any more the fridge is where it's at and as soon as Engel realise we also need fridge net while we are camping things just aren't going to work.

Lol, Krafty your a funny man.

My TV's and Blueray players have the ethernet port in the back, Ill get around to hooking them up one day.

Dave.
 
So far I have found mobile broadband to be a bit of a gadget and that is about it. It might be handy to be able to have an Ipad at home and sit on the couch reading forums if the telly is boring, but wireless is still so unreliable and patchy that to spruik it as a proper replacement for fixed broadband as the opposition does is just silly.

If I am out and about, I am happy enough to accept that I will have degraded performance, I am happy to accept that I may be homed to a cell which currently has umpteen users on it so it will be slow to check up on the map of where I am going or whatever I wanted to look at. I am also prepared to accept that it might perform slowly as I am too far from a base station, or that it might not work at all and I might have to wander around to find somewhere it works. But if I am at home and want to use an Ipad or similar device, I will want it hanging off a WiFi connection that is close enough to be bulletproof reliable and fast and is homed off a fixed connection that does not cost me a bazillaion dollars because I decided to sit there all month watching youtube videos.


Fibre is here and now and the bandwidth available here and now is capable of being vastly in excess of current requirements, down the track with simple hardware changes it can be updated to cater to even higher speeds.

Wireless is here, now, slower, patchy, unreliable, as speed variable as ADSL is and as distance dependant and to give speeds comparable to the NBN fibre proposal relies on technologies that are not even out of the labs yet. And even when they are, to provide those speeds will require vast numbers of base stations to be fibred anyway! There are only so many you can hang of microwave hops before the bandwith of the microwave links becomes the issue.

Someone put it to me pretty well.

Fibre is what you want if you can get it.
Wireless is what you put up with if you can not get fibre (I suspect that I will be just outside fibre coverage myself)
Satellite is what you put up with if you can not even get wireless.

Whilst I generally agree with what you've said, it still doesn't address a few fundamentals which I have concerns with (keeping in mind that I am a fully licenced electrician and telecommunications cabler, have qualifications in fibre cable testing, and am currently part way through a bachelor of electrical and communcations engineering degree at university - so I have a general idea of what i am talking about, but not quite a fully fledged "expert" yet):
- Necessity - Sure, it would be great to have fibre right up to the ethernet port on the back of my computer, just as it would be great to have my own 4 lane highway that originates at my garage and terminates in front of my carpark at work, but cost versus reward makes it not worthwhile. An exaggeration perhaps, but I think I've made my point.
- Forecasting the future - By proposing an almost completely fibre-oriented solution, the government are basically prescribing the future to us. Had they gone for a more mixed approach, it would broaden the direction of future technology, and in my view, mobility is the future. Fibre is infinitely faster and better than copper, but let's not forget that even fibre has vastly improved and even changed standard gauge since it's introduction 15-20 years ago, so whilst it is here and now and very good, there's nothing to say it won't be replaced by some uber-fast silicon superconductor cable or something in the next 10-20-50 years... then we'll have spent $43b on an obsolete technology; if we shared that sum amongst mixed technology then we would expose ourselves to much less risk of that happening.

You mention that mobile broadband at the moment is slow, inconsistent and expensive. I agree 100%, and is exactly the reason why I think the NBN solution should include re-engineering of the way we transmit mobile data. I know 4G is on the way, which throws up an interesting situation, will people even use the NBN if they can more affordably subscribe to mobile 4G coverage on their mobile devices? - forego some speed for the added convenience, freedom and lower expense?

Another few issues which I have not been able to find answers on:
- Will the NBN solution provide the hardware at the network boundary to convert the light signals to electrical signals for transmission over the copper cabling within the subscriber's building? Or will they just provide every premises with an unterminated fibre core and the resident looks after the rest?
- Even if it does, the transmission over the 20-50 metres of the copper cable in the building is going to strangle the bandwidth of the fibre anyway to a large extent, so although it will still be better than having a hew kms of copper between you and the exchange, it will still only be as fast as it's slowest point.
- The copper cabling in 99.9% of homes/buildings will be cat3 voice grade copper or worse, which is shit/utterly useless for moderate-to-high speed data transmission, subject to high levels of alien crosstalk & EMI, is the NBN going to re-cable everyone's house in CAT6/CAT7 UTP copper (or multi mode fibre, for that matter) as part of the subscription? What's that going to cost the subscriber? Or is that included in the $43b estimate? Or has this dilemma not even been thought of by the government yet?
- What about people who rent? Are they going to pay exorbident connection/re-cabling costs, only to have to move house in 6-12 months? I think not....

I could go on for a long time with these questions/concerns, but at the end of the day, people need to realise that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If consumers think they are going to get 10gb/s broadband by 2020 for an even remotely comparable price as they are paying for ADSL now, they are dreaming....
 
Telstra have been rolling out FTTP for the last several years to some new estates, paid by developers like Satterly that want it.

I can confirm for you that (if the Telstra Velocity system that I install is anything to go by) there is an ONT (Optical Network Terminal) supplied and fitted under the customers $299 connection fee. What is not included is the internal cabling, cat 6 for data (internet) cat 5 for telephone (although cat 3 works perfectly) and an rg6 for free to air and subscription tv. Remember that is for new Telstra Velocity estates, but the system will be virtually identical to the NBN.

NBN_outdoorONT.JPG


I cant answer you other questions as yet because zero information has filtered town to subcontractors.

Older areas are going to be nightmares as the old network of pits and pipe is just going to have to be replaced. New conduits will be needed to run from the pit to the house in these areas, how many homes have you seen that are a concrete jungle? Bring out the saw and cut that shit up. It may be worth while in getting a mini excavator setup as there is going to be hundreds required across Australia to get all this done even before any fibre cable can be run!

Now the part that concerns me the most is all the multiple level homes in Aust, it is going to be impossible to some get these wired up correctly.

I dont really care about the politics associated, im just happy that Im going to have a job and make decent money the whole time its being rolled out
 
That network boundary distributor looks pretty spiffy, I am impressed! I work solely on large commercial projects, so don't see any residential stuff...

Ditto about the old areas (which covers the vast majority of the populated areas of Australia). And imagine all of the apartment buildings. There's no ceiling spaces or cavities to run cables in those.... it will all need to be run surface mount.....ewwww
 
One more question, does that ONT require a mains power supply? If not, how does the customer telephony network get voltage?
I am very interested to find all of this out....
 
We run a 7 core cable from the ONT to a power supply unit (2 for power and 5 for communication between psu and ont) which converts ac to dc, not exactly sure what voltage, probably 12

IMG_3781.jpg



The internals of that ont I put up is slightly different to the ones Telstra supply us but you get the idea. If I knew where my mobile phone usb cable was I could post a pic of the internals of an ont that I installed, will look for it tomorrow

They have made it very easy for us to do the install, with the ONT and PSU, even down to the pre terminated fibre optic cable used to run between the ONT and the optical ports in the pit
 
It's all pretty neat technology, and easy as pie for new homes...

It's almost incomprehensible to think how they are going to accurately cost and manage this rollout, like you said, there are so many variables. Replacing pit and pipe systems along the street, replacing individual conduits to buildings/houses - probably digging through water/gas/electricity pipes in the process lol - where does it end!!!

One thing I am happy about is hopefully a lot of electrical and communications contractors get off my commercial construction turf and get stuck into the NBN rollout, gives me some breathing space!
 
Good info, I know the copper network but haven't had much at all to do with the fibre network.

Will have to get in and do some research.

Dave.
 
Telstra super-fast 4G wireless sparks debate over NBN

Whilst I would not be naive enough to suggest that the proposed 4G network would go close to matching the NBN for speed and capacity, coming from a GenY point of view, I am absolutely willing to sacrifice raw speed and capacity for mobility, and almost everyone of my peers agrees. If I had the choice between having an NBN service or a 4G mobile service, I would go with the 4G hands down. Luckily I will be able to afford both and I will get both, but not everyone will have that luxury, students and young people on the lower end of the income scale will choose 4G without a doubt IMO
 
Agreed, but the alternatives are companies like Vodafone and Optus who have equally as pitiful customer service, yet have disgustingly crap mobile reception even in the city. I've tried them all, their service is the same, but Telstra just far and away beats them with quality of product
 
When thinking of wireless speeds, biggest thing to remember is that they invariably (Particularly the fed opposition and their ra-ra brigade) talk it up and talk about speeds that are actually PER CELL, not per user. 150M in the labs as a lone user might translate into more like 100M in the field, distributed among maybe 20 or more concurrent users so thy advocate replacing the NBN with an ADSL speed-like service with more performance issues and less competition.
 
I agree, those tests on 4G speeds are perfromed by Telstra to benefit Telstra. It does not suprise me that they are trying to sink the NBN as they have the most to lose. No more line rentals (voip will be the norm on NBN), no more call outs @$100+ as it will be fibre contractors not Telstra guy. No more control over the exchanges as the NBN runs on nodes and will be controled by NBN Co.

The catch with 4G is it is only available in CBD and major centers. So unless you live in an appartment in Sydney (screw that) you probably won't get 4G coverage consistantly

It is a desperate scare tactic by a desperate company to try and get a foot hold on dumb ass Abbott who believes anything he is told about technology as long as you line his pockets.

If i had Telstra shares i would be selling up. To be honest i would rather have crap coverage in country Australia on Optus than be treated like a number by Telstra. I have never had a bad experience with Optus customer service, Although i have had plenty of problems with Telstra.
 
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