Holden gone by 2017

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An excellent comment at the end of a Guardian piece.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...fails-to-ask-the-hard-questions?commentpage=1

To me there are five issues that taken together mean the car industry will close irrespective of the actions of the government.

1. The consumer doesn't care where their cars are made. Australian car production has been falling since it's peak in the 1970s and is now producing less than half the number of cars it did then. Australian car imports have continued to grow and car sales have also grown in line with the population and income levels.

2. Australian capacity is too small: Car factories in Australia are smaller than they need to be to be internationally competitive (as I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread) the Nissan plant in Sunderland produces more than twice the number of cars each year than the whole Australian motor industry and over 80% of those cars are exported.

3. The market is fragmented. The Australian car market has too many brands competing for share driving down domestic pricing. Australia is one of the few markets in the world where every marque is represented.

4. Productivity: The Australian worker has low output - Sunderland Nissan plant turns out just under 96 cars / employee / year. The Adelaide Holden plant turns out just under 60. This can be seen as underinvestment but with the demand for cars from this plant being flat / declining making this plant productive would still mean shedding nearly half the workforce.

5. Distance: Australia is at the end of a long global supply chain so components makers, designers, and manufacturers have no reason to be here when they could be in Asia.
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A part of it is the fleet car market, Holden was propped by it for a long time during an age where companies bought the company cars but these days workers/managers etc are free for the most part to choose their own vehicle brand and type.
I've watched at work over the last year or so as all the company vehicles have been replaced/re negotiated etc and not one now is a Holden, there's many different brands there now, Holden simply doesn't make what people want and haven't for a long time.
For example take our market, dual cab 4x4 utes, the Colorado is far short of being a market leader compared to the competition, Holden offer it in case a "Holden fan" wants something in this segment, this is Holden's problem, relying on fan base and not developing enough of a vehicle to own the segment, just my opinion, I'm obviously not a Holden fan and never have been, the two worst cars I've owned were Commodores, both shit boxes.
 
One of the key representatives of the AWU in my area left them to offer his service's to produce EBA's for companies.
The writing is on the wall for unions, has been for ages.

Unions have provided essential work safety and conditions. Sadly in their effort they've orchestrated their own demise. What I mean is, they've provided soooo much that its not affordable.

Anyway I wish I had the next 3 years of 100k/ yr loss to lament.
 
Rather simplistic point of view - but you expect that from biased cheer squads.

The issue is far more nuanced than this article suggests. And if we follow its logic then all subsidies should go - where would farming be then? And mining?

I have a feeling that the car industry was an easy target - not many farmers are unionists.
 
In my experience, sensitive situations like this rarely result in mature reasoned discussion. Hopefully this topic loses focus before it degenerates into a slanging match.

There will be people who feel strongly about what happened and what will continue to happen, and those opinions will span a number of viewpoints.
 
Makes a good read but one dimension-able. Maybe their wage was to much. However labour costs are only one component of many for the decision. As mentioned the subsidies to the mining and farming industries would make subsidies to Holden pail into insignificance.

The Commodore was a dead duck anyway. Even by GMH's own admission. If there was any future for Holden it wasn't making more rear drive Commodores or similar but rather smaller front drive cars or perhaps what most people on this drive- Ladder frame trucks. There sophisticated trucks now days but in many ways simple compared to mono-cock construction of cars and more profitable to for manufactures.

The GM Zeta rear drive platform is/was a good thing. BMW and Mercedes don't persist with rear drive for nothing when there is a perfectly good set of wheels right next to the engine. Problem it's such a niche market when. The world is going smaller, everything is down to the bone, profit and shareholders are only thing that matters.

I guess in hindsight it's not fair to just blame Abbott and co but there is no getting away from the handling of the issue it was pathetic and more than likely ideologically driven. If there was any glimmer of hope for car manufacture in Australia they killed it. The social cost of the decision will be every bit of impacting than the the monetary.
 
doc said:
In my experience, sensitive situations like this rarely result in mature reasoned discussion. Hopefully this topic loses focus before it degenerates into a slanging match.

There will be people who feel strongly about what happened and what will continue to happen, and those opinions will span a number of viewpoints.
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You come across as such a sensitive soul Doc, just about every thread i have read that you have been involved in has ended up with you being offended in way way or another.
Its ok mate its only a Navara forum. :cray: :sarcastic:
 
nathand22 said:
You come across as such a sensitive soul Doc, just about every thread i have read that you have been involved in has ended up with you being offended in way way or another.
Its ok mate its only a Navara forum. :cray: :sarcastic:
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Mate, all I'm saying is that sometimes its worth being careful what you say.

Do you know EVERY person on this forum? How would you feel if you made some "tough luck" comment about this Holden stuff, only to find out there is a member sitting there who - when this all happens - will lose his house?

Would that make you feel good about wise-crack comments?

As for me - I'm looking like I will probably lose my job soon, because of an arbitrary decision to move 56 jobs in one area of my company out of Hobart and relocation them elsewhere. Can I get another job in Tassie that pays anything like what I earn? Probably not, no. Can I leave Hobart and relocate? No - family law issues prevent me from doing so.

So yeah - maybe I AM a little sensitive about some topics.

And perhaps you could exercise some sensitivity to other peoples feelings too mate.
 
doc said:
Mate, all I'm saying is that sometimes its worth being careful what you say.

Do you know EVERY person on this forum? How would you feel if you made some "tough luck" comment about this Holden stuff, only to find out there is a member sitting there who - when this all happens - will lose his house?

Would that make you feel good about wise-crack comments?

As for me - I'm looking like I will probably lose my job soon, because of an arbitrary decision to move 56 jobs in one area of my company out of Hobart and relocation them elsewhere. Can I get another job in Tassie that pays anything like what I earn? Probably not, no. Can I leave Hobart and relocate? No - family law issues prevent me from doing so.

So yeah - maybe I AM a little sensitive about some topics.

And perhaps you could exercise some sensitivity to other peoples feelings too mate.
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:hahaha: thanks for proving my point.

Its not just this topic mate, I have seen you go on the same way about winches or rope and just about every other topic you are involved in, its like you look for something to get up set about and then say how other members dont care or cant be mature enough to have a sensible debate ect.
 
nathand22 said:
:hahaha: thanks for proving my point.

Its not just this topic mate, I have seen you go on the same way about winches or rope and just about every other topic you are involved in, its like you look for something to get up set about and then say how other members dont care or cant be mature enough to have a sensible debate ect.
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I can't think of anything positive to say to you in response to your post.

I asked you to express some decorum - some respect for what others may be going through, and you turn it into some kind of weird attempt to hand sh!t on me.

If it makes you feel better, go for it.

If what I say causes you so much of a problem, you can always add me to your ignore list. That way you will never see a post that I make, unless you decide to open it. Problem solved!
 
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doc said:
I can't think of anything positive to say to you in response to your post.

I asked you to express some decorum - some respect for what others may be going through, and you turn it into some kind of weird attempt to hand sh!t on me.

If it makes you feel better, go for it.
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There we go again :cray: all so sensitive. Actaually i dont think you can think of something positive to say period
Mate i have been in the building industry all my life and i see it all the time companies come and go and so do the jobs, do you really think that just because you get a job today it means you are entitled to it for the rest of your life??
It goes both ways to people get all the training and experience from one company over many years and just when the employer feels like they have the worker thay have wanted and trained for the task that employee will up and leave for better money or a change in lifestyle or location ect

It's just life mate.

You have gone on and on all because Nevyn said Tassie is a drain on the taxpayer :cray::cray:
 
no jobs safe down here, wont be long and they will start moulding and making our chocky's else were in asia.
 
Yeah, so what's going on with you guys Zete? Any news? I bl00dy love coming home after being away, and seeing those big white silos (whatever on earth they are).

My mother-in-law retired from there about 4 or 5 years ago (worked on the Flake line, and previously on the Turkish line).

Hopefully the tours get up and running again mate, because people through there will help make the public case for keeping it open. Good product, good price, high output...
 
I work for a company that employs 1200 people directly and about 1000 indirectly
our future is very poor at the moment and there is a lot of talk about a closure within 2 years
it will be a shame and theres no doubt it will affect my lifestyle
but theres no sense crying about it
htfu and get on with life
one door closes and another opens
quit your whining and do what you have to do to support your family
if that means collecting cans along the side of the hwy then so be it
 

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