dirty little rumours regarding vehicle modification...

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joshman

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hey all, i've been hearing some dirty little rumours regarding a new national standard for vehicle modifications

these go along the lines of:

-rolling diameter of a tyre must not change from that specified by the manufacturer
-no suspension lift apart from that which is a factory fitted option

and a few other things, all of which are seriously gonna make just about every vehicle on here illegal to be run on the roads. and from what i hear, it's the idiots and dumbass little Ricer retards that we have to blame for it.

On the TMR Qld site there's a small note:
"Note: The National Code of Practice – Light Vehicle Construction and Modification has been finalised by the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board and will soon replace the Queensland Code of Practice: Light Motor Vehicles"

anyway, can anyone shed a bit more light on this?
 
There was another thread about this not too long ago, and I'll say the same here as in there.

Apparently you CAN modify your vehicle but you will NEED to get it certified by an engineer if you want it to be roadworthy. I didn't think they'd restricted the tyre size that much, but the rolling diameter does impact on the bearings - the torsional stress around the axle (the lever that exists longitudinally along the axis from the centre of the axis to the centre of the tread in contact with the road) can affect the longevity of the bearings.

It's all to do with extremes. People who dramatically lift their 4WDs either because they want to take it off road or they just like intimidating other vehicle owners aren't doing the rest of us any favours, especially when their vehicle becomes unstable enough to become the cause of an accident that just killed your two children and crippled you and your wife.

On the positive side, I don't think a moderate change will draw too much attention (although that's not the bigger issue now). There are people who use this site and freely admit to using extended shackles which are illegal in every state. There are people who have driving lights on their roof and that's also illegal in every state. They're not dragged into an impound yard by the police because the drivers aren't doing stupid stuff and hooning around.

The big issue is in insurance. Even if your vehicle is NOT at fault in a road accident - let's say that you get shunted from behind by a bimbo in a Mercedes that wasn't paying attention - if your car is not roadworthy, your car should never have been on the road and thus caused the accident by being where it shouldn't be. Instead of getting your rear bumper and tow hitch replaced by the insurance company, you now have to fork out for that out of your own pocket, and pay for the damage to the car that hit you, all because you didn't have a roadworthy vehicle. You can BET insurance assessors are going over this with a fine tooth comb so they can list defects and avoid payouts.

It's a bit annoying that we'd need an engineer's cert for a tyre change, but you DO have the option of getting larger tyres and just hauling them with you, returning to your standard size tyre after the game is over.
 
Is getting an "engineers certificate" really going to be a problem?

There would be a whole lot of industry/employment that is going to strongly oppose a blanket ban on any modifications.

My 2c is that banning backyard modifications without certification is inevitable.
 
I'm fine with taking vehicles through an inspection to get mods like suspension and tyres certified, at least then we can have the modifications, but a blanket ban on all mods, is just stupid.
 
Ok Im a little confused here
I thought we were all heading towards adopting the NCOP. Now they are in fact stricter than the rules the NSW RTA is proposing.The ACT has already fully adopted the NCOP with no big deal. However NSW and other states have already made up their own set of rules. This effectively means my truck is illegal to drive in NSW even though its 100% legal in the ACT .
I think its retarded that we have a national set of rules that the different states have made their own rules from .
 
This is Australian politics. What on earth surprises you about that?

The left hand NEVER knows what the right hand is doing because the left hand is too busy inside the pants and the right hand is being held out for a sly payment.
 
joshman and from what i hear said:
Id hardly say that’s fair, placing the blame on a group of people.
Blame the government if you want to blame anyone..

they are the ones seeing fit to introduce these new laws, these new laws that will restrict everyone’s ability to modify there vehicle no matter what type it is.

sure enough I own a 4wd and a 'rice burner' and I don’t like the introduction of any new laws that makes it harder for me to modify my car.... sure enough as it is, it’s not that easy.... you need written approval and engineers certificates for almost every little thing these days...

I don’t think the blame should be placed on the people that already cop all the flak from the media...not everyone is a hoon just cause they drive high performance cars... some people like myself aren’t total dickhed’s on the road and save the fun stuff for the local race track / or 4wd track – depending on the car.

It’s just those some dickheads give everyone a bad name, an it’s not just the ‘ricers’ cars, 4wders get it too. I’ve met some really great people on my trips and some real tossers as well... and these are the ones that get us 4wders banned from the places we like to go, local tracks, beaches, etc.

If you don’t like the new rules, stand up – make a stand against the laws.... don’t go around blaming car enthusiasts, you might need their support to have the new rules abandoned....
 
Okay, a quick skim of that draft doco says that you can load it up(bull bar, winch, second tyre, ?), then up it to the original "trim" height, then and additional 3" WITHOUT any restrictions. Over that height and you may have driving restrictions imposed(speed? load?).

Change it tell them.
Also had something about self certification if back to original specs.
Otherwise, someone has to sign off on the bits used(aka the company who created them). If this goes Aust wide, then that slip will be in the parts box.

Seems 4Wd Action is 4WD shock jock to me.
 

Again, I'm only going on what I've heard, works of firewalls and inner guards being cut out to fit excessive tyre.

I've no problems with the rules being tighter, but i still want the option to modify my vehicle in such a manner, even if it means that I've got to put my car through an inspection and get everything ticked off. And a modplate issued.

Personally a 5" lift is where my car is headed:
1" in tyres
2" in suspension
2" in body lift.
 
I found the part about "conditional registration" interesting. If you're a member of NSW 4WD club you get full registration ... now tell me that's not some arsehole in Parliament who either has a friend with a 4WD that is owed a few pokes in the back passage, or has a 4WD themselves. It stinks of corruption.

Have a look at the detail, too, and look carefully. Compare things to how they are now.

Now, if you want to lift more than 50mm (2 inches if you use the pre-1976 scale) you have to get it certified. They are proposing that you need certification if you want to lift it more than 75mm. That's a combined lift over standard - so it's the measurement from the GROUND to the top of your wheel arch compared to standard. This means that you have to account for increased tyre size, suspension lift AND body lift.

They're also talking about a tyre diameter increase of 50mm (again, for you people that are still using the measurements we stopped using back in 1976, that's still 2 inches, or a third of the average man's fire hose if you understand neither measurement). That's quite a difference in tyre size.

Ultimately it's restrictive, but seems they're allowing THAT club to sign off on the modifications, so perhaps the "Eden, Gilgandra, Gundagai (and rest of NSW) Navara Owners Group" might also get to sign off on these things - I wonder if that makes the club responsible for and losses attributable to those modifications? That'd be a nasty side-effect, not sure if the club thought about that before slipping some KY jelly into his friend in parliament.

As an example of how this is limiting:

We like to increase the tyre size, because that gives us a height increase where it truly matters - the differential. An increase of 50mm of tyre diameter (max legal under the proposed legislation) gives a diff height increase of 25mm.

Most people then seek a suspension lift of 50mm, which is easy enough to do, gives you an extra 50mm under chassis and increases your ramp-over, approach and departure angles.

Some people like to do body lifts as well - gives little advantage to ramp-over, approach & departure angles or ground clearance (limited by the chassis there too) - but it does increase the height of the vehicle's centre of gravity by a small amount, which is increased by the load carried. In other words, there's not a whole lot of advantage to a body lift.

So, with a 25mm lift under the diff and a 50mm suspension lift - both seem popular with many 4WDers - there's your 75mm limit.

What tyres can we change to on the Navara? This is the one that bites. The standard 255/70R16 tyres have a diameter of 763.4mm. Many people put 265/75R16s on - that's 10mm increase in width, and 5% increase in profile - the road diameter is 803.9mm, which is just short of the max 50mm allowed.

So with the usual tyres one might pick for our vehicles (on road) we're still within the limits. Off-road, you can take another set of wheels with you - many people seem to do this - and use 'em off-road. Nobody has any drama with that. You can use your 285/85R16s (total diameter 890.9mm, or just over 125mm (5 inches) over standard. You're not on the road, so go right ahead.

I don't think the legislation will affect the average driver. That's not where the problem really lies.

It brings the restriction down to what the average car has done to it, but means there's NO ROOM at all beyond that. It also opens up the door to closing down ANY modifications, which is something they might push for next - unless you're a member of "the club".

And I have a problem with that.
 
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What tyres can we change to on the Navara? This is the one that bites. The standard 255/70R16 tyres have a diameter of 763.4mm. Many people put 265/75R16s on - that's 10mm increase in width, and 5% increase in profile - the road diameter is 803.9mm, which is just short of the max 50mm allowed.

So with the usual tyres one might pick for our vehicles (on road) we're still within the limits. Off-road, you can take another set of wheels with you - many people seem to do this - and use 'em off-road. Nobody has any drama with that. You can use your 285/85R16s (total diameter 890.9mm, or just over 125mm (5 inches) over standard. You're not on the road, so go right ahead.

.

Thats pretty much all the information i've been looking for over the last two weeks in one spot! thanks Old Tony!
 
What I haven't seen mentioned is if this legislation is retrospective?

If a vehicle already has (like many do) a 50mm suspension lift and 50mm larger tyres which gives a 75mm increase in height to top of wheel arch then do those people have to go and have already modified vehicles certified?

Or is this only going to effect future modifications?
 
What I haven't seen mentioned is if this legislation is retrospective?

If a vehicle already has (like many do) a 50mm suspension lift and 50mm larger tyres which gives a 75mm increase in height to top of wheel arch then do those people have to go and have already modified vehicles certified?

Or is this only going to effect future modifications?

More than likely i would say you would have to go get it certified to be roadworthy.

Are these new modification rules just for NSW? Because from plenty other forums this is goin to be a nation wide implementation of these rules.
 
Ultimately it's restrictive, but seems they're allowing THAT club to sign off on the modifications, so perhaps the "Eden, Gilgandra, Gundagai (and rest of NSW) Navara Owners Group" might also get to sign off on these things

Tony, only one point that i feel i need to make to the above ... ONLY if the 'CLUB' is affiliated with the state's 4wd association.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you wrote.
 
Tony, only one point that i feel i need to make to the above ... ONLY if the 'CLUB' is affiliated with the state's 4wd association.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you wrote.

I missed that, and you're absolutely right. What's the bet that affiliation is not going to be easy to get now, especially once these "powers" are bestowed upon the organisation.

Corruption sucks.
 
Thats pretty much all the information i've been looking for over the last two weeks in one spot! thanks Old Tony!

I wrote an Excel formula that calculates this for me. I used the units that you would read straight off the tyre so that it was easy to use and recognise. I've called the cells by their letters, because in a spreadsheet your columns are letters and the rows are numbers. Just keep adding tyre sizes in the rows and copy the formulas down in cells D, E and F. Titles are in bold, to go on the top row. "Integer entry" means that's where you can type stuff in, and it should be WHOLE numbers only, no decimal points.

The assumption is that the titles are on row 1 and the first data line is row 2. Ive composed the formulae accordingly.

Cell A Tyre Width
integer entry

Cell B Profile
integer entry

Cell C Rim Size (Inches)
integer entry

Cell D Wall Height
=A2 * B2 / 100

Cell E Road Diameter
=C2 * 25.4 + 2*D2

Cell F Circumference
=3.1415926536*E2/2

Cell G Revs Per Km
=1000000/F2

Hope someone finds that interesting.
 
I found the part about "conditional registration" interesting. If you're a member of NSW 4WD club you get full registration ...

Where was that?
Didn't see that in the draft doco?

FWIW, I have a model live steam engine that can operate to 100psi and be certified by our clubs boiler insspector; BUT the boiler inspector has the relevant boiler inspectors tickets from trade school/industry/etc. It isn't just anyone. is it the same for 4WD clubs?
 

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