Auto slow to change down

[rjenko]

Hi all,

I've just purchased a 2013 D40 2.5ltr 5spd Auto and as you start to climb a long hill around town (60kmh) in wants to stay in 4th gear too long and vibrates, almost like the engine is labouring. The only way of avoiding it is to flick it into manual mode or put the pedal to the floor. It just doesn't want to cruise up at 60 without kicking back up to 4th and vibrating.

I was hoping someone has had the same problem, and had a fix??

Any advice or experiences would be great.

 

[TigerST]

I know the vibrating you speck of. But gear wise other then towing never had a problem

 

[Old.Tony]

Must be a different gearbox. In mine, as soon as it senses anything more than a speed hump, it kicks back to third.

Of course, if I'm very, very gentle on the pedal, it will stick in gear - I've even had my torque converter locked at 55km/h, because I've given it no reason to load up and for some reason it's neglected to disengage the TCC below 75km/h. It never fails if the engine load is over 50% - but when the load is in the 25-35% range, it will remain in top with the TCC locked as low as 1200rpm. It's bloody gutless at those RPM with the turbo boosting about as strongly as a sparrow's fart gusting by.

Nissan dealers seem to hate problems with the gearbox. Nissan themselves don't like talking about the problems with the 550's gearbox (the 4LO manual override problem). It's because these gearboxes weren't built for the Navaras - not sure where the 4-banger's box came from, but the 550's came out of the 370Z I believe, had a transfer case cable-tied to the rear and then someone let a monkey loose in the TCM Programming Department, so that if you engage 4LO the thing goes bananas.

The gearboxes should NOT suffer from blocked valving like older gearboxes did. The oil that's in there is supposed to be in there for life - although 'life' has been redefined over the last few years, with 'life' of a car battery increasing from 12 months to 2 years, 'life' for killing someone decreasing from 20 years to 2 years in a hotel with Bubba + probation and 'life' of the average electronic equipment being "warranty period plus one day".

It might be worth talking to your dealer about, but where the gearboxes are concerned, you might get better mileage talking to the potted plant in the corner.

 

[rjenko]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

What you've mentioned Tony about the TCC staying locked as low as 1200rpm sounds like what it's doing. It's only in certain situations but a pain in the arse nonetheless.

Anyway i have it booked in on Monday to get looked at but by the sound of it I can probably predict the outcome...

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Alby]

Hi guys, mines a 2012 series 6 2.5 auto, yep, mine hangs onto 4th gear just the same as yours. The dash vibrates severely. This appears to be the norm for this gearbox.
Before I purchased mine I drove a second hand 2009 stx auto for sale, just a short term latter I test drove a new 2012(the one I eventually purchased) and both auto's functioned completely different.
So, somewhere along the line it appears the valving in the auto along with the control of the lock-up converter has been changed from previous models. Perhaps when the engine was upgraded to 140KW?

Alby.

 

[Old.Tony]

I think you're right. The newer boxes apparently engage the TCC in 3rd and 4th as well, mine only engages it in top gear.

My understanding of the kickdown operation is that drivetrain load causes a valve to open - which reacts to the pressure - and the gearbox changes gear (in simple terms). I wonder if the resistance to that pressure, or the sensing of the load, is set too high?

 

[Alby]

I live below the Toowoomba range and work in Toowoomba so, this vibration issue annoys me daily. If you are climbing a fairly good incline at a speed of 50 to 60KPH, the gearbox will be in 4th reving about 1250RPM, the correct wording here should be "Labouring" and the fact to make the gearbox downshift, the accelerator needs to be pushed down past halfway, probably closer to 3/4 before it understands 3rd maybe a better option which sends the vehicle into orbit speed wise. Not the best being that it is a 60 speed zone. If you slide the gear lever over to the ''Manual Gate", it does go back to third but, disconnects the locked torque converter and revs to the topside of the engines torque range. Anyway, why should I need to manually change gears? Didn't I purchase a vehicle with a "automatic transmission"?
Spoke to the dealer, they did check it but a bit hard when the closest range is 25Km away. Anyway, they did say it did all of the road test functions correctly.
I contacted the guys at Wholesale Automatic Transmissions about this and they informed me they had no fix for this issue(probably because its not a Toymotor).
The fact of the mater is, the engine is clearly operating way outside of the engines torque range/sweet spot, which equates to a inefficient use of fuel use. To remedy this, a simple re calibration of the control system, be it via the electrical control module or mechanical springs/valving, to me, this is not rocket science to those with the skills in that field. They do this type of reprogramming daily.
Okay guys, how do we get this fixed?
Speak to me.
Alby.

 

[Old.Tony]

It would take a gearbox specialist to make those changes. Nissan dealers can only do the standard checks governed by their own procedures supplied by Nissan and Nissan themselves have long ago finished R&D on these boxes, they're already looking at future projects. Unless you can demonstrate a wide-spread issue caused by the errant design of the gearbox, Nissan won't help. So that leaves someone outside of Nissan/Dealer and that's going to void the warranty on the 'box.

If you're happy to void the warranty on the box, an automatic specialist (not just a guy with an oil can, but a true expert) should be able to do something with it. You'd think Wholesale Automatics would be able to advise on it - they build valve assemblies for the things after all - so my guess is they haven't seen a 2012/13 D40 yet, or had much of a chance to play with one, but they'd be able to tell you WHY the box does what it does, and they'd be able to steer you in a direction that should let you take yours to a local experienced gearbox mechanic and have him make adjustments (if the thing can be adjusted).

It might be a lot of work, it might end up being a case of dropping a shim into a spring that holds a valve and the task is done. That answer is further down the track, but I'd be looking for someone that knows gearboxes inside out who might be able to point to WHY it won't kick down, then have them suggest a means of making the gearbox do that.

 

[Alby]

Yes, I realize its a special job, spent the last 34 years in a trade repairing and calibrating all sorts of manufacturing plc controlled hydraulic equipment, most of the time adjusting European and American made machines to function in Aus.
As I said, to those working in the field of automatic transmissions, its not rocket science. Anyway, this forum is not about what I've done, its about helping to build a better mouse trap.
I just can not believe how Nissan can produce such a good vehicle and fail in the basic control of the transmission.
Alby.

 

[scarecrow73]

Mine is a Sept '13 build ST auto and does exactly the same thing. There is a climb about 300m long on my way home and if the Nav changes to 4th just at the bottom, it does exactly as you describe, engine really starts to labour and revs drop with the shuddering. Either have to pop the boot down more, resulting in quite high revs, or flick it across to manual mode (don't get me started on that system!!).

If you happen to get a fix, pass it on. I'll be letting my dealership know about it when it gets it's 10k service later on.

 

[rjenko]

Sounds like i'm not alone on this...

I went to the dealer and they said they'd love a dollar for every time this issue has come to them. There answer was it's normal operation for this vehicle. Great help.

If anyone choses the specialist option any gets good results please let us know.

 

[Bourke72]

Hay Guys THANK GOD! about time some other Navara owners are encountering this!! Its that bad in mine that im very close to selling it (its only 1 half years old) this problem shits me to tears!!!!!! my vibration is very loud in the dash when it locks in to top gear and you cant budge it out unless you floor the pedal. I have had three Navaras in the past and i love the car its just this one 2013 St 2.5 Auto has disappointing to me with this Automatic Transmission put Simply NISSAN GOT IT WRONG trying to save fuel with the torque converter locking up to quickly at 60km an hour. The GOOD news is finally i have found a solution a Throttle Controler a Windbooster that plugs straight into you accelerator pedal- since installing this the rev range has stayed where it should be on the wright setting its 90% better to drive i wont say 100% but very impressive and doesn't allow the torque converter to lock as easy- the only draw back is fuel consumption goes out the window. The Throttle controllers cost $250 money well spent for me. I'm still thinking about selling it though still not happy with a modern car that you have to change the dynamics that much to get pleasure driving it it sucks.
I do recommend the Wind booster to fix this problem.
I have even taken the Head mechanic from the local Nissan Dealership for a drive and he said there nothing Nissan will do its just the way it is he is ashamed when someone comes in
complaining about this problem because he knows what it is and he cant do a thing about it.

 

[rjenko]

thanks for this, I'll look into it. Yep, for a modern car it's a bloody joke.

 

[Jnrsnav]

I actually don't mind the way the auto works. I like the way it stays locked up for longer and doesn't just slip all the time.

 

[Pedro123]

The gearbox vibration is a comon problem in late model japanese auto boxes (not only Nissans according to my Auto Service Guy).
Although Nissan say it voids the warranty the best way to get rid of it is change the oil.
Nissan say only use genuine oil, Castrol make the Nissan oil, but you can't use castrol!!!!
My bloke puts VALVOLINE MAXLIFE MERCON in and the shudder dissapeared from the time he did it and that was 70,000k's ago.
As he said they all look the same and there's no way your local Nissan dealer is going to test the oil anyway.