2006 STX wont turn over

[STX550NAV]

Gday Guys,

I have a 2006 STX that I have been pulling my hair out on, it wont turn over by the key. I have checked power going into the power distribution module, I can see that the ignition is telling it to start, bench tested the starter relay and works, and can see that the auto is telling it to start. I used a scan tool to verify and it says yes when in park for the starter relay. No other fault codes a present.

I have cleaned all earths and connections.

Today I replaced the power distribution module but didn't make a difference.

With the key on and power supplied directly to the stater it will start and run drives no problem.

It seems like a immobiliser problem, have tried both keys and no good. But would it let it run if immobiliser problem? Have read could be a BCM problem?

Taking into Nissan today for a look on thier scan tool.

Open to any and all suggestions

Best Regards

Matthew

 

[doc]

Wouldn't run if it was an immobiliser problem - it tells the ECM to not supply fuel IIRC.

So you've logically checked the continuity of all circuits in the starter activation? There isn't a break in the wiring somewhere?

 

[STX550NAV]

Gday Doc,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Thanks for the information on the immobiliser that makes sense

I really thought maybe the CPU inside the power distribution module or somthing inside that was going to be the problem.

I have check the wiring from the key switch to the Power distribution module - no problems there on the grey wire. Power coming in isn't a problem.

The only thing I can see different is that the brown wire, from the automatic is .5 volt under battery voltage - I wouldn't have thought it would be enough to cause a problem.

I could external mount some relays for the starting circuit keeping in mind the netural start inhibitor. Something must be wrong for it not to start but with no fault codes coming up, its hard to find.

Best Regards

Matthew

 

[doc]

I really don't know enough about these to be of definitive help, but if I can help rule out a couple of things, all good.

I do know that many of these systems aren't necessarily "battery voltage" - can make it tough to diagnose

The thing that got my attention is when you said about ignition on, jumper lead to starter motor, starts and runs. So obviously it's a signal issue.

Do you have a service manual? Does it give any hints about the automatic neutral switch? Reason I ask is I would;t have picked it as a variable voltage switch - either circuit open or closed. But that is a wild arsed guess...

 

[STX550NAV]

Gday Doc,

More than happy for the assistance

First point of call was ther service manual and it shows the circuit for the starter signal - as far as that is concerened I am 99% confident that its covered.

Auto is telling the power distribution module its all good to start. The switch inside the auto will send up battery voltage rather than say 5 volts etc.

In my mind there is a seperate circuit or issue that wont allow it to crank over.

I did see a youtube clip of when the coolant mixes with the autofluid from lack of coolant changes - no problems there because the starter relay is on.

Also tried hooking up a another battery incase of low voltage - didn't help.

Checked all the fuses with multimeter and resitance to earth points after cleaning them up.

Best Regards

Matthew

 

[Old.Tony]

This could be much simpler too. I'm assuming that the "starter relay" is NOT the solenoid which is attached to the starter and it is in fact the starter relay that's in the IPDM/ER.

Grab a multimeter and a friend, testing for voltage. Black lead on the battery negative, red lead on the starter solenoid's small terminal and see what happens when the starter is turned.

If you don't get a voltage, it means the signal between the relay and the solenoid has failed. I've only ever heard of something like this once, and it was a broken piece of wire (single strand too, why the hell do they do that?).

If there's a voltage, there's one other quick thing to try: move the black lead to the side of the engine housing. Still have a voltage? That means the earth is definitely good.

Not finished with the multimeter - if there's a voltage present on the large pole where the battery lead comes to, you can do one of two things:

1) Assume the solenoid is dead and get a replacement or remove and repair it, or

2) Make sure the thing is dead by momentarily jumpering the two large terminals with something bloody large (it will suck 500A through it so Sgt Slaughter from the Commando Elite is NOT enough). You have to be careful here - if the solenoid is toast, jumpering it will cause the engine to turn over and possibly start. Might be best to conduct this test with the ignition OFF (it will still turn over the engine, but fuel pressure should remain zero).

 

[STX550NAV]

Gday Tony,

Thanks for the reply

The soleniod on the starter is working no problem, if i connect a jump wire from battery + to the white starter soleniod wire on the distribution box, she kicks into life straight away, and no fault codes come up when running.

I bench tested the starter relay out of the distribution box - tested no problem, pulls in no problem.

I would be interested to hear about the broken wire and its location.

There is something else in the system I feel that tells the distribution box ok to start that I must be missing.

I tested resitance between the battery and all earth points and the gearbox- all very low.

It might turn out to be something real simple...as always

Best Regards

Matthew

 

[doc]

I hate electrickery.

You don't have a Lucas system do you? Someone didn't let all the electrical smoke leak out?

Have you checked all the fuses (including the shitty box up front passenger side near the firewall)? Not some odd-ball fuse you might have missed?

 

[Old.Tony]

Okay, if the solenoid is working and the starter is working and the starter relay is working then there are only two places I'd look.

First I'd pop the starter relay again and not only test the positive line for activating the relay, but for the relay's input and output. No point having a relay if it's not picking up its source power and passing it along!

Second I'd be looking at everything under the IPDM/ER and follow the loom from the starter relay to the solenoid.

The broken wire was in the circuit just off the battery that fed power down to the solenoid, almost identical to your situation - it was in the power feed to the starter relay (which is why I'm suggesting you check that first). Was easy to spot by flexing the cable and noting that at one point, the cable bent unnaturally.

 

[STX550NAV]

Gday Guys,

Thanks for the laugh doc - sure hope I havent let the smoke out - hate it when that happens. Our portable sawmills we manufacture were a long time ago fitted with a 25hp Kohler engine. When you jump started them they had a habit of "letting the smoke out" of the speed advance module, asking if the battery had been flat and they had jumped started the machine was a dead giveaway.

I double checked fuse's etc, even ran the multi meter over then just in case was broken on the inside.

Old tony - I checked the contiunity of the wire from the starter into the IPDM all good there - the only thing I didn't get around to check was power to the soleniod - you might be on the right track.

Yester loaded her up onto a trailer and towed it into town for the dealer to run over with the 550 - gee the can pull even with a load!!

If they can't figure the issue I get it back, that will be next on the list.

Will advise what the find if any

Best Regards

Matthew

 

[seventies47]

Check the engine earth strap that bolts up to the body, in front of the fuse box (drivers side of the engine bay) Assuming the vehicle is an auto?? The starter circuit is routed through the IPDm and the auto trans, This earth commonly comes loose and causes an identical fault.

 

[thefoz]

Did you ever find out what was causing the problem